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Ideal Heroes: Mental Illness in Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive

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Ideal Heroes: Mental Illness in Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive

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Ideal Heroes: Mental Illness in Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive

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Published on June 5, 2018

Illustration by Michael Whelan
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Illustration by Michael Whelan

When you hear the word “hero”, what’s the first image that comes to mind? Someone big and strong and confident and perfect? Well, in Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive novels, the heroes aren’t quite what you’d expect.

In the following conversation, Sanderson beta readers Paige Vest and Ross Newberry take an in-depth look at these less-than-ideal heroes and how reading about their exploits has inspired more than one “broken” person to keep up their own fight. Please be aware that this article includes frank and deeply personal discussion of mental illness and touches on depression, anxiety, trauma, suicidal ideations, and self-harm, in terms of both fiction and personal experience—addressed with the intention of illuminating the experiences of the characters and the perspective of readers who see their own struggles reflected in the series.

Before Paige and I get started, we want to point out that neither of us is a mental health professional. The content of this article contains very personal anecdotal observations, and should not be construed as medical advice. If you are experiencing thoughts of harming yourself or others, it’s not enough to rely only on epic fantasy or any other fiction, no matter how good it is. Get help from people who are trained to assist you. In the United States, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 1-800-273-8255, or chat by visiting the Suicide Prevention Lifeline Chat.

This article also contains spoilers for all publicly released material in Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive series (The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, Edgedancer, and Oathbringer). You’ve been warned.

Ross: If I were asked to condense the overall theme of Brandon Sanderson’s ongoing Stormlight Archive epic fantasy series to a single thought, it would be: broken people save the world. Brandon has rightly received praise for creating this story centered around a cast of characters for whom mental illness or neurodivergence is not merely a hurdle to overcome, but a critical part of what makes them unique individuals, and also the key which unlocks their access to magic.

Whether working on a single sentence, a chapter, or a whole book, a good writer will always try to accomplish more than one thing at a time with their words, and Brandon is an excellent writer. In addition to serving as an engaging narrative, his fiction also gives representation to non-neurotypical people, who are often underserved as heroic or pivotal characters. But even beyond that, my introspection and contemplation of the books over the past several months has revealed a third major facet of Brandon’s writing. He’s giving his readers who live with mental illness a toolbox filled with ways to recontextualize their experiences, and to cope with the reality of their existence. This article was written during May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month in the United States, and seemed an ideal time to shine a spotlight on the topic. But of course, there’s no wrong time to discuss these important issues, which so often go unremarked upon and unexplored.

All of this was brought to light by a series of deep conversations with friend, fellow Sanderson beta-reader, author, and Windrunner of the Third Ideal, Paige Vest. She will do a much better job of explaining the reasons leading up to this realization than I would, so I’ll shut up for a minute and let her have the soapbox.

How about it, Paige? How did we end up this far down the rabbit hole?

Paige: I think doing the beta read for Oathbringer made us look at the story in such depth that we are actually living (or trying to live, in my case) the Ideals. That’s what’s great about this series; you visit Roshar enough and you start carrying it around inside of you.

So…when I first read The Way of Kings in 2010, I was utterly blown away. The character of Kaladin Stormblessed resonated with me on a level I was unable to fully comprehend for years; I only knew that I understood him. Words of Radiance was even more spectacular, if only because this reluctant, broken hero inspired me as much as he inspired the members of Bridge Four, and even Adolin, Dalinar, and Elhokar.

Then came Shallan’s first forays into being someone else, wearing a different face…and oh my Harmony, did her POVs hit me in the gut. I’ve never been professionally diagnosed with a personality disorder, but on a couple of occasions during my sporadic therapy, there has been mention of Borderline Personality Disorder. I tend to believe (but again, not a mental health professional!) that what may mimic BPD is, in actuality, an extreme manifestation of my two confirmed diagnoses of bipolar disorder and chronic anxiety, which came about a year before the release of Words of Radiance.

Lift’s resolve in Edgedancer to remember the forgotten and listen to the ignored were selfless and noble sentiments which touched a place in me that I didn’t quite realize needed soothing. That starving little novella provided me with one of my favorite literary characters because she would remember me, she would listen to me.

The Oathbringer beta read in early 2017 was two months of sheer, heart-shredding emotion. I felt Kaladin’s pain and helplessness, struggled along with Shallan to figure out who I was and which mask I should show the world, and hated Young!Dalinar’s cold and dismissive brutality even as I understood Old!Dalinar’s shame, self-loathing, and need for forgiveness.

As I’ve learned more about my illnesses, I’ve come to realize that The Stormlight Archive touches me so deeply because it features people like me who, for lack of a better descriptor, are broken in some way. They are less than ideal as epic fantasy heroes, yet they still manage to be heroic and honorable. They’re enviable and they inspire others, despite their self-perceived cracks and flaws.

These characters don’t conveniently overcome their illnesses and addictions when they gain access to the healing power of Stormlight, and this seems to disappoint many readers. If Lopen can regrow his storming arm, surely Kaladin will stop brooding at any moment. And Shallan will stop being a whiny teenager and start acting normal. Right? Well, no. Per Word of Brandon, these disorders and illnesses aren’t injuries or flaws, they’re part of each character’s personality and how they perceive themselves. If they accept those parts of themselves as who they are, then there’s nothing for Stormlight to heal, unlike Lopen’s arm, which he talks about as if it were still there and making rude gestures at people. Alternatively, let’s take a look at Renarin, whose eyesight was healed but whose seizures were not, because he sees one as a flaw and the other as who he is. Additionally, Teft’s addiction isn’t banished by his ability to use Stormlight because it’s a part of his identity; it’s how he sees himself.

As we all know, it’s not exactly common to find the subject of mental illness and neurodivergence so openly addressed in mainstream fiction, and rarely to the extent that Brandon Sanderson has done in The Stormlight Archive. The Radiant heroes of Roshar could likely benefit from some medication and therapy (because getting some sunshine and frolicking about in nature, while therapeutic, is not a cure for mental illness…fight me), and they are very much my literary soul mates. They’re broken…beaten down by their experiences and their pain. They are confused, overwhelmed, and so often feel alone in their respective points of view.

Ross and I have had many a conversation about these broken heroes, about their struggles and their pain, about their resilience and their Ideals. And though it’s difficult for me to accept, deep down I know that they are me. Maybe they’re you, too. Not everyone will feel this way, of course, but I hope you all still join us in this discussion. After all, pain shared is pain lessened, and perhaps by sharing mine with you, we can bear some of our burdens together.

And now, Ross and I will talk about life and strength and journeys…so, whether you love or relate to these characters, or whether you hate them and wish they’d get over it already, I hope you join us as we explore the ways in which this series and its broken heroes have helped me personally find strength. Through my unique relationship with Roshar’s Radiants, we’ll examine how they’ve guided me on my own journey toward a destination that remains unknown, even to me.

 

The Immortal Words

We should start at the same place every Radiant does, with the First Ideal of the Knights Radiant. Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. On the surface, this seems like a fairly cut-and-dried distillation of a code of ethics. Rules to live by, to guide people faced with difficult decisions. As it turns out, the two of us have very different approaches to the deeper meaning of these words.

Ross: Life before death, the Words say, and I hear never kill your adversary when leaving them alive is possible. Killing is the easy way out. We can all change, right up to the point where death obviates the possibility.

Paige: Life before death has different connotations for me. I have not only had suicidal thoughts at times, even oftentimes, but I’ve actually longed for that specific escape from the pain and chaos in my mind, so I consider the onerous task of getting through day after agonizing day of life before finally attaining the rest and peace of death. However, on the rare occasions when I feel uplifted, this phrase relays the idea that if I find something to live for, then perhaps I can stave off the ever-present desire for escape.

Ross: Strength before weakness seemed to me like a generic positive admonition. Don’t quail in the face of difficult challenges. Pour your entire strength into opposing whatever stands against you, and, while you may not prevail, you’ll certainly stand a better chance than if you’d given up. Basically a more graceful version of, “you miss every shot you don’t take.”

Paige: Strength before weakness, to me, feels like an unattainable Ideal. We all have a primitive fight, flight, or freeze response when the brain senses danger of any kind, and I am definitely the flight or freeze kind of girl when my amygdala lights up. Note that I don’t make a conscious choice to do this—rather it’s a symptom of my illness which allows emotion to gain too much power over my behavior. Add anxiety to that mix and it’s often difficult to function.

I’ve been referred to as a doormat more often, and by more people, than I care to admit, and it’s rare that I find strength to defend myself. However, call this the Windrunner in me (a title which came from Ross, by the way, because I never would have claimed it myself), but the only time I do feel the urge to fight is when I am moved to defend someone else.

Ross: I absolutely named you a Windrunner of the Third Ideal, and I stand by it. You had stuff going on in your life, and you acted precisely as a Windrunner would. Those behaviors are an inseparable part of you, and you deserve the recognition.

Paige: Well, if being a Windrunner encompasses putting the needs of literally everyone else before my own, then I suppose I should own it. Though it still feels presumptuous because my brain rejects the idea so vehemently. But then, we both know that my brain is an asshole. ;)

Ross: It certainly tends to lie straight to your face at times, which is pretty rude. I’ll leave that there.

Finally: Journey before destination. We are, all of us, headed to the same place. Each of us has a finite number of days in our life, but what we make of them is all the difference. It is not the fact that we reach the end of the race that matters, but how we ran it. To pull an excellent explanation from Nohadon’s in-Cosmere text, “The question is not whether you will love, hurt, dream, and die. It is what you will love, why you will hurt, when you will dream, and how you will die. This is your choice. You cannot pick the destination, only the path.”

Paige: Journey before destination echoes Life before death to an extent. To me, it implies the need to complete the often dreary and difficult struggle of my journey prior to arriving at the destination I so often desire.

This part of the First Ideal also echoes my point of view during my not-so-dark moods. Then, I’m able to align with Ross’s view that the journey is the most important part of this statement and that I need to make the most of it. In Way of Kings, Chapter 43, The Wretch, Kaladin thinks, Death is the destination. But the journey, that is life. That is what matters.

It’s just unfortunate that this sentiment is so often lost in depression where I, and other sufferers, spend so much time, because it can be a positive and reaffirming take on life.

Ross: No matter the meaning we take from these words, I know for a fact that they help. I know because I have numerous friends who’ve told me that, when Shirley’s anxiety or Randy’s PTSD or Chris’s struggle with weight loss or … any number of things … threatens to overcome them, these friends focus on the words, and what they mean to them. And they feel better. My friend Deana used them just the other day to intercede with an artist who’d never read Stormlight, or any of Brandon’s works. And the community grows.

 

On Kaladin, and Depression

Apathy vs. Emotion

Way of Kings, Ch. 2: Honor is Dead:

This was his lot, and he was resigned to it.

There was a certain power in that, a freedom. The freedom of not having to care.

Way of Kings, Ch. 16: Cocoons:

Other times, he found it hard to care about anything. His dreary feelings were like a black eel, coiled inside of him

[…]

He lay back down, emotions welling inside of him. He had trouble sorting through them.

Way of Kings, Ch. 43: The Wretch:

Just let me be. Let me go back to apathy. At least then there’s no pain.

Paige: I one hundred percent relate to Kaladin’s thought about sorting through feelings, as they sometimes feel like a jumbled knot of string in my mind. His thoughts also verge on apathetic quite often, and make me think of my frequent urge to feel nothing when emotions pull me in every direction. What a treat it would be to take all of the feelings I can’t sort out, that drag me down or cause me to introvert, and just turn them off. Surely, it would provide some much-needed relief from the oft-exhausting avalanche of emotion, right?

Not exactly.

After I was…let’s say, ‘emotionally assaulted’ recently, I was crippled by a myriad of overlapping emotions that I couldn’t control or suppress: anger and anxiety, sadness and shame, self-loathing and frustration, loneliness and regret. Oh, so many flavors of regret; I could taste nothing else. Somehow, I did the very thing I’ve often wished for and shoved my feelings aside. It was as if I’d stuffed them into a box, which I then stuck on a high shelf inside the closet of my mind. I found myself with that power and freedom that Kaladin has experienced. I didn’t care about anything: work, other people’s wants or needs or feelings, bills, chores…myself. Especially myself.

However, it’s not natural for people to feel nothing, and I’ve been clued into the fact that dissociation like this can be very harmful in the long term. Whether we realize it or not, we need to feel, to laugh and cry, to rage and love. The absence of those feelings changed me and I needed to feel, and so I found myself turning to self-harm in order to feel again. But let me assure you, the dopamine rush that accompanies pain is not an acceptable replacement for one’s naturally occurring emotions and can become somewhat addictive, which is a danger in and of itself. If self-harm is something any of the broken Radiants reading this are doing or have considered doing, seek help. Advice. Therapy. Something. Message me, we’ll talk. I might just direct you to get the help you need, but I’ll listen. I won’t ignore you.

Ross: In addition to opening you up to self-harm, those burning emotions have been the driving force behind your writing output for a decade or two. There was some pretty serious backlash turning them off, right?

Paige: Truth. My writing is fueled by my emotion, and at the same time is an outlet to keep emotion from overwhelming me. So to deprive myself of the very tools which allow me to maintain some semblance of sanity wasn’t the wisest thing I’ve ever done, but reason and logic are overwhelmed by my emotion. Smothered, crushed, obliterated. When emotion drives you, you don’t generally make the best choices.

Setting Goals to Combat Hopelessness

Way of Kings, Ch. 11: Droplets:

One more try.

Kaladin opened his eyes. He was cold and wet, but he felt a tiny warm candle flame of determination come alight inside him.

[…]

It was the warmth of decisions made and purpose seized. It was responsibility … He would find a way to protect them.

Way of Kings, Ch. 34: Stormwall:

He wanted to stare at the highstorm straight on, though it terrified him. He felt the same panic he’d felt looking down into the black chasm, back when he’d nearly killed himself. It was the fear of what he could not see, what he could not know.

Way of Kings, Ch. 43: The Wretch:

I could fly, he thought. Step off and fall, wind blowing against me. Fly for a few moments. A few, beautiful moments.

[…]

Step by step, he was turning back into the wretch he had been. He’d always known it was a danger. He’d clung to the bridgemen as a lifeline. But he was letting go now.

[…]

He recognized what was happening to him, this melancholy, this sense of despair. It had taken him often when he’d been younger, most frequently during the weeks of the Weeping, when the sky was hidden by clouds.

Paige: “One more try” and “The next step” are, again, sentiments that echo one another. We’ll get to Dalinar and his epic next step later, but I feel it’s important to point out that people suffering from mental illness often exist in this state, especially when untreated and/or unmedicated. We’re constantly trying to get through one more day, one more shift at work, one more hour. One more storming moment. It’s a struggle, and anybody reading this who experiences the same struggle will agree that taking the next step and giving life one more try is a constant battle.

At this point I feel it’s important to point out that when someone loses their battle with pain and despair, they’re not giving up, and they’re not taking the easy way out. Remember that they’re under assault by their own minds, constantly. They’ve likely taken numerous trips to the Honor Chasm, as so many of us have, and decided to step away from the edge to give it one more try. Don’t lay blame, don’t cry selfishness, and please don’t discount the fact that they were battle-weary and unable to continue the fight.

It’s imperative to know how much it helps to have friends and/or family to offer encouragement, as Tien once gave and as Syl and Wit/Hoid have both given for Kaladin. And as I get from a few close friends who have seen inside my mind and haven’t run away. It helps to have a purpose, such as Kaladin’s determination to protect, and as I have in the upcoming birth of my natural daughter’s first child. I try to keep my eye on that distant light that I’m striving to reach.

Ross: I don’t deal with this kind of thing, but it seems to me there’s a danger in using one particular person or event as a goal to keep you fighting. What happens if that talisman becomes unattainable, or even if the goal is met? Isn’t there the danger of nothing to fight for leading to a plunge into the abyss?

Paige: Definitely. There’s a great deal of danger in both of those scenarios. Putting all of your hope/focus/effort on one person/event/goal is always risky. Take Kaladin’s failure to protect Elhokar in Oathbringer…he was torn between who to protect and, in doing nothing, he was unable to protect anyone. He froze, and people died all around him, including Elhokar. Kaladin had to be rescued from the fray and by the time Shallan had transported them to Shadesmar via the corrupted Kholinar Oathgate, Kaladin was despondent. And what brought him out of that despondency? What else but another goal on which to focus: protect Dalinar. This isn’t the only time we see this behavior in Kaladin. It’s a running theme with him from childhood through the Battle of Thaylen City, and it’s one which I understand perfectly, because it’s also my theme: set a goal, reach the goal, then set a new goal.

On a small scale: I get out of bed each day (not all days, but most days); I make myself go to work where I struggle until lunchtime, and then until five, and try to accomplish something as I muddle through the day. That’s one day down, one goal accomplished, and I set a new goal to do it again tomorrow.

On a larger scale, I focus on upcoming events: a visit with my daughter to create a baby registry; then four weeks until I go to her next ultrasound and learn if we’ll have a Mia or a Braxton; ten weeks after that is my writing retreat; another six weeks until the baby comes and then several weeks helping with the baby; then it’s time to get through the holidays; and focus on JordanCon a few months later. Then I set another goal, then another one.

To be honest, having goals set for an entire YEAR in advance is pretty phenomenal for me, when I generally can’t see more than a few months into my future. I may skirt the edge of the chasm, but I try to keep taking the next step, and then the next.

Stigma & Support

Way of Kings, Ch. 16: Cocoons:

Other emotions had to do with the strange blanket of melancholy that smothered him at times when he wasn’t expecting.

[…]

“I hate talking to you when you’re like this, you know.”

“Like what?”

“Like you are now. You know. Moping around, sighing.”

[…]

“You’re cheerful suddenly.”

“I don’t know. I feel better.”

“How does he do that? I wonder.”

“Who does what?”

“Your brother,” Laral said, looking toward Tien. “He changes you.”

“It’s just hard to be gloomy when he’s around,” Kal said.

Way of Kings, Ch. 44: The Weeping:

How is it you can always smile? Kaladin thought. It’s dreadful outside, your master treats you like crem, and your family is slowly being strangled by the city lord and yet you smile. How, Tien? And why is it that you make me want to smile, too?

Paige: Kaladin suffers from chronic depression, and has since childhood. He’s not just moody and he’s not feeling sorry for himself. He is genuinely depressed, especially during the Weeping, which is indicative of Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) on top of the general depression. Tien made him feel better; he walked beside his big brother in the darkness, he accepted him and loved him, just as he was.

Laral, on the other hand, derided him; she hated talking to him when he was feeling melancholy. This is one reason why I—and so many sufferers of mental illness—wear a mask: the fear of unacceptance. The stigma of mental illness and the widely held belief that people like me can just choose to stop feeling depressed keeps us quiet when things in our minds get too bad. It forces us to try to conform, to try to be normal, and we sometimes end up feeling that apathy that Kaladin experiences.

Ross: I think my high natural level of empathy aided me in this. I’m fairly certain you made an early decision to cautiously open up to me about your mental issues, and I responded by explaining that I didn’t see you as broken, but different. That it was precisely your overwhelming emotions that leant such a potent effect to your writing. Is that the kind of acceptance you wish other people had?

Paige: That’s exactly the kind of acceptance I wish others could offer more frequently.

I used to say that I wore my heart on my sleeve, but I view that phrase differently now. I’ve learned more about how my brain works and I’ve noticed changes in myself, primarily some deterioration as the disorder has progressed. I understand that rather than simply wearing my heart on my sleeve, I am saturated with emotion. All emotions, all the time. They ooze from my pores and drip from my fingertips. They smother me and there is no hiding them from the world sometimes.

To not see my illnesses as something wrong with me, or something that needs to be fixed, but to accept them as part of me—to accept me and value me despite the constant shuffle of emotions, the black depressions, the uncontrollable mania, the overwhelming anxiety—that is what I want. That is what everyone suffering from mental illness needs: a Syl, a Lift, an Adolin.

I try to remember that I do have people walking beside me who will catch me if I stumble, who will guide me when it’s too dark for me to see, who will hold my hand when I need stability, and who will kick me in the ass when I resist taking that ever-difficult next step.

Having loved ones who stay by my side and help me navigate the darkness is an incalculable asset. If I may plug a Pat Rothfuss quote (I’m sure Brandon won’t mind), “Anyone can love a thing because. That’s as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.” I’m fortunate to have some rare and pure and perfect people in my life who love me despite.

Ross: I’ve always loved that quote, and I actually think there can be no real love (whether platonic, romantic, or other) between people without friction. If there’s nothing about the other person which must be accepted as-is, where’s the challenge? Loving something because sounds to me more like infatuation or lust. Loving something despite is to love the whole, unconditionally.

 

On Shallan, and Coping with Emotional Trauma

Smile Anyway

Words of Radiance, Ch. 71: Vigil:

He saw it in her eyes. The anguish, the frustration. The terrible nothing that clawed inside and sought to smother her. She knew it was there, inside. She had been broken.

Then she smiled. She smiled anyway.

It was the single, most beautiful thing he’d seen in his entire life.

“How?” he asked.

She shrugged lightly. “Helps if you’re crazy.”

Paige: She’s not wrong. It really does help if you’re crazy. But kidding aside…as with many things, this can be read a couple of ways. She smiled anyway, yes, and to a lot of people that can mean that she smiled despite the pain, that she’s able to rise above it and find happiness, and so on. However, I tend to lean toward another interpretation because I wear masks to hide myself from the world on a daily basis, masks that society finds to be more acceptable than who and what I really am. They don’t want to see “the anguish, the frustration … the terrible nothing” that I have inside, they want to see the smile. So I give the world what it expects; I may feel the darkness, but I smile anyway.

Ross: I think the real world demands a mixture of both, but definitely both. Showing your true self to everyone at all times won’t work out in the long run, but constantly living a lie will eventually stifle your vibrant, secret self. So the approach I take (and yes, I absolutely hide certain parts of my personality from certain people) is to edit my external persona, but also cultivate a few true friends. People who I know can see the strangest, darkest corner of my brain and, instead of recoiling in horror, lean forward and say, “Iiiinteresting.”

Caveat: friends like this are rare. You can’t take one of your current friends and magically turn them into this confidante. It takes time, and it takes work. It also takes an iterative exercise in deepening and strengthening trust. But I believe the effort is worth the pain.

Paige: I agree that friends like that are rare. What’s also incredibly rare is for someone like me, who tends to hide most of my true self from most people, to be able to cultivate trusting friendships in which I can reveal my true self. And despite the fear of rejection and abandonment, because I’ve experienced both, I hesitantly share myself.

Ross: You choose to take The Next Step. But, again, let’s not get ahead of ourselves….

Hiding Behind Personas

Oathbringer, Ch. 15: Brightness Radiant:

Her every muscle grew taut, and the corners of her vision started to darken. She could see only before herself, and she wanted to run, go somewhere. Be away.

No. No, just be someone else.

[…]

I can hide, Shallan thought, drawing at a frenzied pace. Shallan can flee and leave someone in her place.

Oathbringer, Ch. 82: The Girl Who Stood Up:

For a while, she’d been … everybody. A hundred faces, cycling one after another. She searched them for comfort. Surely she could find someone who didn’t hurt.

[…]

She’d shove all this into the back of her mind, with everything else she ignored. They could all fester together.

Oathbringer, Ch. 108: Honor’s Path:

“All memories are bad,” she said immediately, then looked away, blushing.

[…]

“It’s confusing, being all these people. I feel like I’m presenting different faces all the time. Lying to everyone, because I’m different inside. I … That doesn’t make sense, does it?” She squeezed her eyes shut again. “I’ll pull it back together. I’ll be … someone.”

Oathbringer, Ch. 121: Ideals:

“If you wanted, I could be practically anyone.”

“But that’s the thing, Shallan. I don’t want anyone. I want you. ”

Paige: As we know, Shallan suffers from PTSD stemming from a childhood full of emotional trauma to herself, as well as to her brothers, and let’s not forget the matricide and patricide. Shallan creates these new personas to deal with memories she can’t face (“All memories are bad.”) as well as with situations she feels incapable of handling (“No. No, just be someone else.”).

I can relate because I wear masks daily. One problem with this approach, as it pertains to me, is that it’s difficult for me to gauge what’s normal and I tend to overact…talking too loud, laughing too much or at the wrong time, trying to be the social butterfly because I feel that’s what people expect, though I’d rather be in the corner or at the back of the room where I’ll be unnoticed. This behavior often surfaces when the anxiety is especially high, and the adrenaline rush pushes me to the edge of panic. This can happen in literally any situation, and as is often the case, I need to isolate myself and allow a breakdown in order to purge the stress hormones from my brain.

We also see Shallan struggling to find the real her amongst her creations. This highlights another problem with my need to constantly put on an act and pretend to be a “normal person,” because I don’t know who I really am at times. I don’t recognize myself among the faces I wear for the rest of the world, and I can so rarely be myself that I feel lost.

I’ve read that each person who knows us or encounters us has a different version of us inside their heads, so no one person knows who we actually are. But while we may be a different person to everyone else, most of us recognize the person looking back at us from the mirror because we also have our own version of ourselves in our heads. At least to an extent. There are days when I feel as though I’m standing in front of a funhouse mirror, and I wonder at the contorted image I see. So I can relate to Shallan because she is so lost in her selves, as well.

Ross: I think this, more than winning Shardblade duels or stabbing mean old nasty Highprinces, is where Adolin really fits into the narrative in Oathbringer. Brightness Radiant handles crowds, and Veil sneaks and snoops, but when Shallan is alone with Adolin, she seems to finally be able to relax a bit and be herself. The less she’s able to cope with her personality compartmentalization, the more she needs a trusted friend with whom she can take off all the masks, and simply be Shallan. In fact, I think it’s that realization, at the end, that finally pushes her to choose Adolin. She’s the most her when she’s with him. That’s going to be important, I think.

Paige: It’s incredibly important. Both for Shallan and for those of us who struggle to find ourselves beneath the masks, it means everything for someone to see the real us and to love us despite.

Ross: Not despite! Because.

Oathbringer, Ch. 82: The Girl Who Stood Up:

“It’s terrible,” Wit said, stepping up beside her, “to have been hurt. It’s unfair, and awful, and horrid. But Shallan … it’s okay to live on.”

She shook her head.

“Your other minds take over,” he whispered, “because they look so much more appealing. You’ll never control them until you’re confident in returning to the one who birthed them. Until you accept being you.”

“Then I’ll never control it.” She blinked tears.

“No,” Wit said. “You will, Shallan. If you do not trust yourself, can you trust me? For in you, I see a woman more wonderful than any of the lies. I promise you, that woman is worth protecting. You are worth protecting.”

Paige: Wit/Hoid urging Shallan to be herself, rather than the personas she’s created to deal with one kind of stress or another, was one of my favorite parts of Oathbringer. I knew she wouldn’t magically be mended, that her history of abuse and mental illness wouldn’t evaporate like an illusion running out of Stormlight. But I also knew that Wit telling her that it was okay to live on, that she is wonderful and worth protecting, was a huge moment for Shallan.

This is similar to things that I’ve also been told, and which I’m trying to make myself believe as I fight through each day. I fix that version of the me I want to be, that I know is inside of me, into my mind. I endeavor to let go of the versions of me who are afraid and ashamed, who want to hide from the world, and who turn to self-destructive behaviors to cope with fear and pain and despair. I try to trust that my own real-life versions of Hoid, or Tien, or Adolin, or Syl, are telling me the truth, and I continue to try to accept myself.

 

On Lift, and Justice for the Downtrodden

Avoidance Of Reality

Edgedancer, Ch. 10:

“Everything is changing,” she said softly. “That’s okay. Stuff changes. It’s just that, I’m not supposed to. I asked not to. She’s supposed to give you what you ask.”

“The Nightwatcher?” Wyndle asked.

Lift nodded, feeling small, cold. Children played and laughed all around, and for some reason that only made her feel worse. It was obvious to her, though she ’d tried ignoring it for years, that she was taller than she’d been when she’d first sought out the Old Magic three years ago.

Paige: As we see in Edgedancer, Lift has some strong opinions about growing up, about changing. She visited the Nightwatcher to avoid that very thing and, though we don’t yet know how that particular visit went, we know that Lift didn’t exactly get the boon she had been seeking. She is growing, she is maturing. And she’s pretending that she’s not.

Avoidance of reality is a very real practice when you suffer from certain illnesses of the mind. I can only speak for bipolar disorder and anxiety in this respect, but both of these conditions often result in sufferers creating their own version of reality, whether it’s a less bleak version of our own lives or some kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy. We create a story in our minds, much as our little Lift has done, a story that either goes how we want it to go or, on the darker side of that, a story that’s worse than reality. Not believing that I deserve goodness and light, or that it’s fleeting anyway so why bother believing, causes me to scramble as quickly as possible back into the darkness and away from the light. It’s lonely and it hurts, and it skirts with the abyss, but I know it…I’m comfortable there. I’m not happy or content there, but at least I know I won’t be let down. The darkness doesn’t disappoint me and it definitely never leaves me.

I wonder if this might be one reason Lift wishes not to grow up: she’s unwilling to change. Perhaps she’s afraid of what the future brings, or is unable to see the future altogether. She’s more comfortable remaining a child with no responsibilities and no attachments. I hope to understand more about Lift as we get to know her better in future installments of the Archive.

Ross: Lift is by far my favorite Stormlight Archive character, partly because I identify with her more than any of the others. We both love food. We both have a goofy, irreverent, childlike wit. We both hate to see people overlooked or underserved (and I hate for people to fail to see their own inherent awesomeness). And neither of us is very big on responsibility. It took me nine years to earn a bachelor’s degree, and the only reason I burned through the last year-and-a-half was that I married a Type-A planner. I’m a horrible procrastinator, putting off responsibilities until the last possible minute. Dropped my tax payment in the box five minutes before the mailman drove by for pickup this year. So yes, when Lift plays the Child Card, and is Awesome anyway? That makes my inner procrastinator all kinds of happy.

Remembering Those Who Have Been Forgotten

Way of Kings, Interludes: Lift:

She set Gawx on his back, face toward the sky. He wasn’t really anything to her, that was true. They’d barely just met, and he’d been a fool. She’d told him to go back. But this was who she was, who she had to be.

I will remember those who have been forgotten.

Edgedancer, Ch. 5:

I will remember those who have been forgotten. She’d sworn that oath as she’d saved Gawx’s life. The right Words, important Words. But what did they mean? What about her mother? Nobody remembered her.

There seemed far too many people out there who were being forgotten. Too many for one girl to remember.

Paige:  Depression lies. I know this even as I believe its whispers in my ear as it perches on one shoulder clad in, let’s say, a little black devil outfit. It tells me that nobody cares, that I’ll always be alone. That I’ll drive everyone away because I worry incessantly, I’m too sad, too moody, too needy, too…pick a less-than-happy-and-content emotion. Boom, me. I isolate myself—cloaked by the darkness in my mind—to keep from being hurt; then feel hurt because nobody’s searching for me in the darkness in which I cloak myself.

I feel forgotten.

Ross: First of all, I want to reassure you that you’re not forgotten by your friends. And, in the same breath, admit that I understand you feel this way. In dealing with people who suffer from depression, I’ve often gotten the best results from this dual approach, because it recognizes overtly that, while the reality I see shows that you’re not forgotten, I completely understand how you could feel that way.

Arguing that you don’t actually feel the way you do is, in my mind, just low-key gaslighting.

Listening To The Ignored

Edgedancer, Ch. 19:

Too few people listened to anything other than their own thoughts. But what good would listening do her here? All she could hear was the sound of the storm outside, lightning making the stones vibrate.

Thunder.

A new storm.

I can’t defeat him.

I’ve got to change him.

Listen.

[…]

“I will listen,” Lift shouted, “to those who have been ignored!”

“What?” Darkness demanded.

“I heard what you said, Darkness! You were trying to prevent the Desolation. Look behind you! Deny what you’re seeing!”

[…]

“I’m sorry,” Lift said.

He looked to her, face lit red by the continuous lightning, tears mixing with the rain. “You actually are,” he said, then felt at his face. “I wasn’t always like this. I am getting worse, aren’t I? It’s true.”

“I don’t know,” Lift said. And then, by instinct, she did something she would never have thought possible. She hugged Darkness. He clung to her, this monster, this callous thing that had once been a Herald. He clung to her and wept in the storm.

Edgedancer, Ch. 20:

She tapped her head. “I got it figured out.”

“You’ve got what figured out?”

“Nothing at all,” Lift said, with the utmost confidence.

But I will listen to those who are ignored, she thought. Even people like Darkness, whom I’d rather never have heard. Maybe that will help.

Paige: Anxiety works much the same way as depression, as I refer to it just above. It sits on my other shoulder and it also wears a devil outfit…red this time. There’s no shoulder angel for crazy people, unless you count the fallen ones.

Ross: Oof.

Paige: Anxiety tells me not to reach out of the familiar darkness for help, not to call or text or message anyone with my boring, repetitive worries and sadness. They don’t want to hear from me, after all. I’m too much of a downer, it is known, and I don’t want to be a bother, a burden.

People ask how I’m doing, I tell them I’m good. They ask how my weekend was, I say it was great. I smile and I laugh when I think I should; I joke and exchange anecdotes. And they believe it. They don’t see behind the mask and notice the bloodshot eyes, the dark circles, the worry lines. They tell me I look pale, ask if I’m okay, and they don’t hear the quaver in my voice as I reassure them that I’m fine…I’m just tired…I have a bit of a headache. I don’t mention that my head probably aches from constantly clenching my jaw due to persistent, overwhelming tension.

I think that people accept the easy explanation, that they let their eyes slide away from the signs of me falling apart that I’m unable to hide completely, because it’s easier than confronting it. It’s easier than dealing with the crazy, easier to play along. And trust me, I don’t blame them. I understand and I can’t fault people for not wanting to see, or to hear, or to get involved.

But still…I feel ignored.

Ross: It’s a good thing these books have caused you to stumble into a small community of proto-Radiants who understand, if not completely, then at least better than most. And I have a feeling the responses to this article might end up making you feel a little less alone, as well.

Paige: I am incredibly lucky to have found so many wonderful friends through both Brandon’s writing, and before that, through Robert Jordan’s. I very much hope that our efforts here will resonate with others who relate to our beloved Radiants as I do.

Despite my alleged Windrunner tendencies (looks askance at Ross), I very much relate to Lift because she’s so bent on advocating for the forgotten and the ignored. She’s determined to remember and to listen, even to those she hates and fears.

In fact, the Third Ideal of the Edgedancers echoes the  Windrunners’ Third Ideal: “I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right.” Lift says, “I will listen to those who have been ignored, even Darkness whom I’d rather never have heard.” On that note, let’s not overlook Teft’s Third Windrunner Ideal, regarding protecting those he hates, even if the one he hates is himself.

Ross: There’s something else I wanted to bring up, and the fact that Lift seems to suffer more from emotional trauma than mental illness makes this a good spot to mention it. If you have ever been the target of emotional abuse at the hands of another, you should be very mindful of the fact that you very well may have been trained, over the course of weeks, or years, or decades, to doubt yourself. To constantly second-guess your feelings and turn to that other person for validation. Your apparent dependence on your abuser is one of the main factors that keeps you in an abusive relationship. If it seems like everything they’re saying is designed to keep you in one place, that place is probably under their thumb. Find better friends; they’re out there somewhere, and they’ll help.

Paige: They are out there, and they do help.

I’ve never considered myself to be a strong person; I don’t know whether all people who suffer from disorders such as mine feel the same kind of shame and self-loathing that permeate my mind, but it’s been a lifelong, personal belief that I am weak and pathetic and that everyone must see me as such. With therapy, from professionals and otherwise, I’m learning that these kinds of feelings are likely due to the fact that, yeah, I’ve been the victim of prolonged mental and emotional abuse. It’s more difficult to own this than it is to own the psychological diagnoses, if you can believe that.

Please know that this is not a request for sympathy or reassurance, it’s just a statement of fact from my perspective. Could I access the healing powers of Stormlight, it wouldn’t heal this because it’s how I see myself; it’s ingrained, it’s who I am. However, I firmly believe in standing up for others. So Ideals that include protecting those who cannot protect themselves—even if I hate them or they’ve hurt me—remembering the forgotten, and listening to the ignored, very much hit home for me.

Ross: I’m going to skew things sideways for a second with some theorizing. Can we talk about why Lift is so keen on people not being ignored?

Edgedancer, Ch. 15:

When you were always busy, you didn’t have to think about stuff . Like how most people didn’t run off and leave when the whim struck them. Like how your mother had been so warm, and kindly, so ready to take care of everyone. It was incredible that anyone on Roshar should be as good to people as she’d been.

She shouldn’t have had to die. Least, she should have had someone half as wonderful as she was to take care of her as she wasted away.

Someone other than Lift, who was selfish, stupid.

And lonely.

Lift has her own darkness lurking in the past, and my theory is that a large part of it revolves around abandoning her own mother when she got sick.

 

On Dalinar, and Acceptance of Failure

The Next Step

Oathbringer, Ch. 118: The Weight of it All:

The most important step a man can take. It’s not the first one, is it? It’s the next one. Always the next step, Dalinar.

Ross: Of course, the most recent Stormlight volume, Oathbringer, is Dalinar’s book, and this discussion wouldn’t be complete without him. It’s interesting, to me, that Dalinar’s struggles to cope aren’t ever really targeting the loss of his memory, but rather the confrontation with his own past when it returns. To acknowledge that who he was is part of who he is, that people were right to distrust overtures of peace from the Blackthorn, and to move on regardless in an honest attempt to be worthy of respect instead of fear, took true courage.

Paige: “The most important step is the next one.” Now this…oh my Honor, this hits me in the feels. This rips my feels from my chest and pummels them, shreds them, obliterates them. This is my mantra, to keep me fully in the journey and keep that destination out of the reach of my pain, because this is the journey: taking the all-important next step, and then the next one, and then the next one. Because truly, taking that next step is sometimes the most difficult thing to do when your own brain makes just getting out of bed in the morning a struggle.

For me, the other aspect of this statement is that deciding to take that next step is an affirmation that I’ll keep going, that there is a future for me to journey toward. That may sound like an alien concept to a lot of people, but trust me, it’s kind of huge because envisioning a future can seem impossible when I’m steeped in the grip of crippling depression, as I so often am.

Cultivating Forgiveness

Oathbringer, Ch. 118: The Weight of it All:

Trembling, bleeding, agonized, Dalinar forced air into his lungs and spoke a single ragged sentence. “You cannot have my pain.”

Ross: We’ve all done things we regret. And some of us have done worse. Things that haunt us. That cause us to wonder if we’re worth it. That’s the case for Dalinar, who was a pretty terrible person when he was younger. To see this one-time villain stand in front of Odium in Part Five, and refuse to deny responsibility for all of it, for any of it, to own his failures, and the very real chance he’ll fail again, inspires me to do the same. To be better.

Paige: “You cannot have my pain.” This is obviously a huge moment for Dalinar, as he refuses to become a tool for Odium. Cultivation pruned his thorniness and allowed him to grow as a person and a leader prior to doling out memories of the horrific things he’d done in his youth. She returned it to him, memory by memory, so that he could absorb each one and cope with what it meant, who he had been. Becoming the man we met in The Way of Kings because of the lack of those memories was integral, IMO, not only to his ability to resist Odium, but also to becoming deserving of Evi’s forgiveness, so many years after he had first asked that boon of the Nightwatcher.

To be completely honest, I envied Dalinar that respite from his past because I’m fully in Shallan’s “all memories are bad” camp. Okay, not fully…I have some good memories, some GREAT memories, even, that are bright spots in the darkness. They populate my pile of good things and keep me going. Yet, there are many bad memories; they plague me and hold me back from enjoying my journey, and forgetting them to allow me to grow as a person would be preferable to dwelling on them. Perhaps, with such a respite, I would more easily bear the weight of my pain, as Dalinar learned to do. However, as there is no real-world version of Cultivation to prune my memories, I realize that I’m responsible for seeking my own healing. It’s an ongoing process, and I backslide a lot, but I can almost see the glimmer of a future where my burden has grown lighter.

 

Hoid, Psychoanalyst Extraordinaire

Ross: It occurred to the two of us, as we researched this article, that where there is pithy coping advice to be had, or when one of Our Heroes needs a nudge (or a shove) in the direction of Radianthood, it’s more than likely the impetus is coming from Hoid.

In The Way of Kings, Kaladin is on the edge of discovering what he can do, or running away forever. Standing literally on a precipice, Kaladin runs into Wit, who tells him the story of the Uvara, then asks Kaladin what the moral was.

The Way of Kings, Ch. 57: Wandersail:

“It means taking responsibility,” Kaladin said. “The Uvara, they were happy to kill and murder, so long as they could blame the emperor. It wasn’t until they realized there was nobody to take the responsibility that they showed grief.”

“That’s one interpretation,” Hoid said. “A fine one, actually. So what is it you don’t want to take responsibility for?”

Ross: *shove* There are, I think, only five people in the first book who encounter Wit and remain un-insulted. Kaladin, Dalinar, Renarin (who gets picked on but not actually demeaned), Adolin, and Shallan. And while we’re on the subject of Wit and Dalinar, check out this passage that has a vastly different meaning post-Oathbringer.

The Way of Kings, Ch. 54: Gibletish:

“…Isn’t it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched into something like them—yet wholly unlike them at the same time?”

Dalinar frowned.

“I wonder if you could do that to a man. Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Aimian. If you do put a man together like that, Dalinar, be sure to name him Gibberish, after me. Or perhaps Gibletish.”

Ross: Did…did Hoid just totally tease Dalinar that he knew not only what had happened with his memories, but also that he totally knew Cultivation’s plan?!

Paige: That’s our Hoid. All-knowing and all-seeing as far as we’re aware. And despite his pronouncement that he would essentially let the world burn in order to achieve his goal, he sure helps out our Radiants a lot. He shows kindness and understanding, he offers support and acceptance. And sometimes, he supplies a little kick in the ass to push someone in the right direction. I like his style of therapy; it feels familiar.

Oathbringer, Ch. 82: The Girl Who Stood Up:

“Do you wish,” Wit asked, “that you could go back to not being able to see?”

“No,” she whispered.

“Then live. And let your failures be part of you.”

[…]

“You tried to help the people of the market. You mostly failed. This is life. The longer you live, the more you fail. Failure is the mark of a life well lived. In turn, the only way to live without failure is to be of no use to anyone. Trust me, I’ve practiced.”

Paige: Failure is a difficult thing to accept when I’m constantly being reminded by my brain how badly I messed up. I’m constantly ashamed for being a disappointment, for letting someone down, for causing a problem, whether it’s a small thing or whether it’s a spectacular failure, as Shallan experienced (okay, admittedly, I’ve never messed up on quite that grand a scale). It could even be just saying the wrong thing during a conversation, but my mistakes plague me. Anxiety won’t allow me to laugh it off or let it roll off my back, it sits there on my shoulder, whispering in my ear, making me remember.

Ross: It’s also important to note the subtext of Wit/Hoid’s advice here. He has some monumental failures in his prodigious past, and a Scadrian Imperial ton of guilt to go along with them. But if Hoid, who, at his age, has likely racked up more failures than 99.9999% of all people, is able to accept those failures and try again, perhaps we can, too.

Oathbringer, Ch. 82: The Girl Who Stood Up:

“You’re not a monster, Shallan,” Wit whispered. “Oh, child. The world is monstrous at times, and there are those who would have you believe that you are terrible by association.”

“I am.”

“No. For you see, it flows the other direction. You are not worse for your association with the world, but it is better for its association with you.”

[…]

“Many people have suffered more and they get along fine.”

[…]

“Wit?” she asked. “I … I can’t do it.”

He smiled. “There are certain things I know, Shallan. This is one of them. You can. Find the balance. Accept the pain, but don’t accept that you deserved it.”

Paige: It’s a common theme among those of us dealing with mental illness—and abuse such as Shallan has suffered, such as many of us have suffered—to have our brains tell us we deserve anything and everything bad in life, and that someone else always has it worse. To see Shallan express these sentiments was a veritable punch to the gut because she really has had it bad. To see Wit/Hoid counter each of those sentiments so effectively and eloquently was profound.

One of my psychiatrists once told me that while it’s true that many others do have it worse, that fact doesn’t discount the pain that I feel. It doesn’t make my fight any less grueling. That’s a difficult thing to remember when I encounter someone whose situation is obviously worse than mine, which is one reason I can relate to Shallan’s self-doubt here.

To be completely honest, I cried during most of Wit/Hoid’s chat with Shallan in Kholinar (shocking, I know), but when he told her that the world was better for its association with her, the mental and emotional gut punch literally took my breath away, because it was as if he was talking directly to me. I often feel, as Shallan did and as many of you may, that the world would be better off without me. Spoiler alert: it’s not. We all have something to contribute, as we all have someone who needs our contribution. I can know this without feeling it, without believing it, if that makes sense. I’m working on turning that perspective around and it’s a painstaking process. I have hope of succeeding, eventually, with a little help from my friends.

 

The Journey Continues

Paige: If you’ve gotten this far on our little journey through mental illness in The Stormlight Archive and how it’s impacted my personal journey, both before and after my own diagnoses, I thank you for sticking around. If you’ve faced your own struggles, and found solace in the pages of these books, then I salute you.

If you’re fortunate to be one of the four out of five people not afflicted with mental health issues, I also thank you for reading through this article. I hope that it might help to give you some insight into these characters, or into family members or friends who may be suffering. If so, then it was all worth it. It was painful to write and even more painful to share, and I’d like to thank Ross for his help and support as we slogged through this monster piece of writing…and for helping me to organize the jumble of thoughts in my mind.

If there are any particular quotes or segments in the books which have touched you and may have been omitted above (because did you see how long this article was?), leave a comment below and let us know. If there’s something you wish to share privately, please feel free to reach out to me via Facebook Messenger.

Ross: And again, if you’re experiencing thoughts of harming yourself or others, please call the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 1-800-273-8255, or chat by visiting the Suicide Prevention Lifeline Chat.

Paige juggles two jobs, two cats, numerous writing projects, and her sanity. She’s honored to have received a scholarship to attend the 2018 Writing Excuses Retreat in September and can’t want to flail about it when she gets back. She lives in Truth or Consequences, NM, which is a real, weird place. #goYankees

Ross is a software developer by day and an aspiring author by night. When he juggles, it’s mostly just normal stuff. Balls, other small objects, that kind of thing. He lives in Roswell, GA with his wife, two children, and a tiny dog named Hercules.

About the Author

Paige Vest

Author

Paige lives in New Mexico, of course, and loves the beautiful Southwest, though the summers are a bit too hot for her... she is a delicate flower, you know. But there are some thorns, so handle with care. She has been a Sanderson beta reader since 2016 and has lost count of how many books she’s worked on. She not only writes Sanderson-related articles for Reactor.com, but also writes flash fiction and short stories for competitions, and is now at work on the third novel of a YA/Crossover speculative fiction trilogy with a spicy protagonist. She has numerous flash fiction pieces or short stories in various anthologies, all of which can be found on her Amazon author page. Too many flash fiction pieces to count, as well as two complete novels, can be found on her Patreon.
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About the Author

Ross Newberry

Author

I'm a software developer who grew up on sci-fi and fantasy. Now I'm trying to write a book! Writing blog: http://rossnewberry.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/rnewb
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6 years ago

Great article. Well done, both of you. I’m not up to opening up the way you did here at the moment, so I’m not going to get into any specifics about what I might have identified with, but let’s just say I really appreciated the article.

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6 years ago

Yeah, this is a really interesting look at things — one that stood out to me that you touched on, and that repeats throughout Sanderson’s writing, is that you can’t be a hero on your own. And that’s one of the lies your brain will tell you, that you have to do it on your own or ‘it won’t count,’ or that no one will want to help you, or that it’s too much work to ask of someone else, or any of the other thousand variations. But none of his characters can do what they do by themselves; even when they’re shining alone, it’s because of the people they’ve surrounded themselves with. And it’s the same for us.

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6 years ago

Well done! It was a very interesting read. Thanks for being so vulnerable and honest with us, Paige!

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Linnea
6 years ago

I posted this on Facebook, but I thought it would be good to share here too:

I’ve been more and more open about my mental illnesses over the last few years and I’ve found it to be both therapeutic for myself and beneficial to others. The more we bring these things to light, the more we are able to see one another and realize that we are not alone.
Thankfully I have some incredible friends who love me unconditionally despite my multiple major mental illnesses. I’m also endlessly thankful for medications and therapy, without which I would very literally not be able to function.

It’s amazing to see myself reflected in the characters of The Stormlight Archive, and to reframe my view of my brokenness not only as something not to be ashamed of, but as a possible source of strength. Such a different narrative than the world gives us!
Thank you Brandon for giving us this extraordinary gift. And thank you Ross and Paige for your insight and incredible bravery in writing and sharing this article.

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6 years ago

I… wow. Thank you so much for this. This article sums up a lot of what I’ve felt about Sanderson’s writing. In particular, Shallan’s journey in Oathbringer was so huge for me. I have anxiety and social anxiety, not Disassociative Identity Disorder (which is how I interpret Shallan’s multiple personalities), but as an artist I identify strongly with her. And her relationship with Adolin, which you touched on briefly, is so important to me. I have my own Adolin, an amazing boyfriend who never fails to listen and support and love even when I’m at my darkest, even when my head is so messed up it’s hard to believe him. He accepts and loves my anxiety without encouraging it. For me, I’m often convinced my anxiety is the only reason anyone is finds me worthy of their time, and he’s always there to tell me that I am not my anxiety and I am worth far more than just a mental illness. Seeing that kind of dynamic played out between Shallan and Adolin – and seeing that relationship last – is immensely important to me. 

The part about always thinking everyone else has it worse really struck home with me. I think that a lot, that anxiety is a “minor” problem and compared to what other people deal with it’s not worth anyone’s time or attention. So thank you for that discussion, Paige. I think I missed that line on my first read of Oathbringer, so I really appreciate seeing it now. 

Thanks again for all of this.

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6 years ago

Kudos!

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

soursavior @1: I wasn’t sure I was ready to open up, either… it’s exceedingly difficult to take off the mask(s) and show your true self to the world. And there’s nothing that says you’re obligated to do so… now or ever.

My Facebook profile is included in my Tor profile, feel free to message me any time. Thanks for reading!

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

BenTGaidin @2: Yes, Ben… The people we surround ourselves with play an integral role in our mental health. <3

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Iskhon @5: Shallan is very relatable and to be honest, it really bothers me to see fans who hate her because of her whining, etc. Part of it is defense of her because damn, have they not SEEN all she’s experienced at the tender age of 17? And part of it is because she’s me, and I’m her, if only to a small extent. 

Thank you for reading and I’m glad that the article touched you in some way. 

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6 years ago

Paige, Ross – this article was very well written, and thank you so much for sharing your Journeys. While I personally don’t have any (diagnosed) mental health issues, I am surrounded by those who do, and I can certainly relate to aspects of Kaladin’s depression and even Shallan’s dissociatve episodes and self-doubt from when I was a teenager and even early adulthood. I have to admit that certain passages made me (and still do) tear up or even cheer out loud because it brought out all the feels in me.

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6 years ago

The fact that BS uses mental illness and people who are broken so prominently is the very reason that I love his work. Weirdly though, this is a truth which only crystallized for me in the last couple of weeks, despite the fact that I’ve read WoK at least 30 times, WoR a good 25, Edgedancer a dozen times and I’m in the middle of my 8th Oathbringer reread.

But beyond Stormlight, everyone who deals with Investiture seems to break somehow. I’d go into detail, but just in case someone hasn’t read Elantris or Warbreaker, etc, I won’t. 

Strangely though, if you’d asked me which order I related to beyond literally last week, I’d have said the Windrunners. Protecting others and taking to the sky called me big time. But last week, I was in an argument online where I was asked why he, an American, should care about London knife crime. My response:

If people actually cared about people beyond their own friends and family, the world might actually be getting somewhere.

It was only a few hours later that I remembered Lift saying “Someone has to care. Too few people care these days.” 

It was only then that I really thought about Lift and the ideals of the Edgedancers and realized that they’re the order I really identify with (to the point that its the only order where I have an idea of what the fourth and fifth ideals might be). And a big part of that is probably my own depression. I’ve had major depression for years (just turned 30, was officially diagnosed 7 years ago when I was 23, but the doc’s think that if I’d asked for help, I’d probably have been diagnosed when I was 12-13). 

I’ve also had a lot of people around me with mental illness – my mother, uncle and two close friends have depression, my aunt has body dysmorphia, my cousin is anorexic, my neighbour who my family ended up as defacto carers for (she had no one else) had severe autism and panic disorder, and about the same time as I was diagnosed and started treatment, one of my friends who had been masking took his own life. 

Thankfully, I had people to listen to me when I was in the dark, who helped me keep down the black voice (which is how I tend to personify my depression) when I was at my worst. When I came back to myself, I promised that I’d always try to be there for people who needed it and that I’d never forget my friend.  

These days, I tend to use the first ideal as a mantra. I’ve always interpreted Life Before Death the same way Paige does. Whenever I find my mind spiraling, I keep repeating it until I can get out of the spiral. I’ve always seen Strength Before Weakness the way Ross does, but can definitely see Paige’s angle. My fight or flight reflex has always been strong (and heavily weighted toward fight). Journey before destination has always been my mantra against my tendencies to overthink and spend too much time worrying about the endgame. I spent years worrying about the fact that I wasn’t able to buy a house or whatever other flavour of stress I decided I should be worrying about that day (often at the expense of recovering from my own depression).  

I’ve also started recommending Stormlight and the rest of the Cosmere to people who are struggling with their own mental illnesses. Hopefully in there, they can find someone they can relate to, who can help them accept who they are.

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longviewer
6 years ago

Wow. Thank you for this, I hope it helped you as it will do for others.

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6 years ago

@11 Speaking of the greater Cosmere and neuroatypicality the character who stuck out the most to me was Steris. As someone with Asperger’s I remember reading Bands Of Mourning and having a moment like, “that’s me!” My Asperger’s manifests in different ways than hers but having it presents in a realistic non-sterotypical way meant so much to me. It was like something I never I needed until I got it. I hope it’s ok that I am bringing her up here since she’s not technically from the Stormlight Archive. 

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6 years ago

Great article, guys! Paige, never doubt that your friends love you! I mean, how could they not????

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

 dashardie @10: I’m glad that you were able to relate, and we definitely wanted to also touch people who are not (currently) sufferers, but that may know people who are. Expanding our understanding and that of others, and doing what we can to reduce stigma surrounding mental illness is always a worthy endeavor, and if we are able to do some small part to that end within our fandom, then it makes the struggles I faced while writing this piece completely worth it.
Thanks so much for reading and commenting.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

asw122 @11: You are one prolific reader! Color me impressed!
I’m glad you enjoyed the article and are able to relate. Thank you for commenting… I was pretty anxious about the feedback we might get from this so every positive comment is reassuring and appreciated. 
Keep recommending SA to people, it’s wonderfulness that should be shared!

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6 years ago

 

When I started reading the article, I was sure I will not comment here, because it is such a delicate matter and as somebody not having a mental issue myself (at least I am pretty sure that I don’t) nor knowing personally anybody who has been diagnosed with one, what right do I have to speak up about things I do not know and therefore cannot even start to understand in ways that some people do? But as I progressed along, I could see that I probably will comment, and here I am.

Thank you, Paige and Ross, for this article. It was interesting and it was enlightening, and I can only guess how difficult it might have been to, as you said, take off the masks and show us the real you. Thank you for your trust in us. On my part, I am sure that from the people here, following these threads, you can be sure to find rather support than condemnation or indifference (at least I hope I am right), for it does seem a close-knit community.

 

I told that I do not have a mental issue myself, and I believe I am considered a cheerful and chirpy person by my friends (at least I think so because if I get pensive and very serious, I have been asked if I am alright more than once. I can be quite shy with strangers, though. The better I feel with people, the more talkative I am, which should say something about how I feel about the people here :) ), but there was a moment I, too, could relate to what you wrote about apathy. When my father died, I could not be my usual cheerful and happy me for about a year, because how could I? What right did I have to be happy, if there was a hole in my heart, and a chunk of my world had just been ripped away? I did not want to feel anything, because not feeling anything was better than feeling the pain. I was happy when the dark autumn and winter came, because I did not want to crawl out of my pit of misery and I hated the spring sun for trying to lure me out of it. But, as you say, it’s not natural for people to feel nothing, so here I am again, back to being me. But to think that I would feel (or rather, wish not to feel) like that the whole time … my admiration to people who fight this fight and win their battles, day after day.

About the First Ideal. I agree that there are many meanings to these words, to each their own, and multiple together.

Life before death. I can totally see how it means Ross’s version, but I have always considered it more in the lines of what Paige said. Also, having our Radiant in mind, I always interpret it that defending life comes before all else. You will live to fight another day, and even more, you will see others through to live another day.

Strength before weakness. For me, more or less what you described. Give it another try. Don’t give up.

Journey before destination. I completely agree how you have explained it, it was written so beatifully, with the perfect quotes from the book. To this, I would also add that I have always interpreted this also in a narrower way that it does not only matter how you live your life, but also how you reach your goals. Does the end always justify the means? What are you willing to sacrifice to get the result? It is not always important what you achieve, but how you achieve it. That is also how I have seen it in addition to what you said

I would like to add a link to a Nickelback song here. (I know they get a lot of hate from some people, but they are my favourite band and this song is among the ones that particularly gets to me and it seems to resonate well with the topic):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjkJ6GZh-pY

 

Edit: *sighs* It appears that a few words that I definitely typed did not end up in the text, so had to fix that.

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6 years ago

Bravo!

sarrow
6 years ago

This is such a deeply moving article. Thank you so much for sharing something so personal and painful with us. May you continue to discover and claim your Radiance.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Celebrinnen @18: I have a few responses to your comments (which I’m glad you wrote!) so I will add some of your quotes and embed my responses.

“When I started reading the article, I was sure I will not comment here, because it is such a delicate matter and as somebody not having a mental issue myself (at least I am pretty sure that I don’t) nor knowing personally anybody who has been diagnosed with one, what right do I have to speak up about things I do not know and therefore cannot even start to understand in ways that some people do?”

While we definitely wanted to reach out to people who suffer from mental illness and other mental health issues, we also wanted to communicate with those who do not suffer. We wanted to shed some light on the subject and mention how amazing Brandon’s writing is that his characters touch so many. So yes, you are perfectly within your right to comment!

“Thank you for your trust in us. On my part, I am sure that from the people here, following these threads, you can be sure to find rather support than condemnation or indifference (at least I hope I am right), for it does seem a close-knit community.”

I’m not exaggerating when I say that I was somewhat terrified to share this. There is such a stigma surrounding mental illness/health issues, and people who suffer fear ridicule and dismissal. So you’re welcome, and I appreciate you reading this massive piece!

“…there was a moment I, too, could relate to what you wrote about apathy. When my father died, I could not be my usual cheerful and happy me for about a year, because how could I? What right did I have to be happy, if there was a hole in my heart, and a chunk of my world had just been ripped away? I did not want to feel anything, because not feeling anything was better than feeling the pain.” 

First, I am so sorry for the loss of your father. You obviously went through a grieving process, but it’s possible you suffered from depression as part of your process, at least it sounds that way to me. So while you may have no diagnosed illness, you have definitely experienced a mental health issue, at least during that point in your life.

“About the First Ideal. I agree that there are many meanings to these words, to each their own, and multiple together.”

I love that the First Ideal can mean something different to everyone. We’re all different people, with different experiences and different opinions, and it’s pretty phenomenal that Brandon’s writing can touch us all so differently, but also so profoundly. 

I’m glad that you decided to comment, thank you for sharing. 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

AhoyMatey @15: Thanks, Gary. I love you guys, too. ;)

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6 years ago

I’ve been looking forward to reading this article, and it was overwhelmingly worth the wait. Thank you both SO much for all the work, and for tearing your own souls open to reach out to others. Beautifully done. 

(And I expected nothing less than 10K on this subject from you two! ;P )

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6 years ago

Thank you for the article. I’ve seen the themes throughout the re-read discussions and have noticed the traits through the characters, but having it all here is powerful. There is so much understanding that can be gained from using this as a starting point. Such a great story made better by having relatable, human motivations.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Wetlandernw @24: What, are you saying we talk a lot, or what? ;)
And yes, tearing open my soul is pretty much what this felt like. I couldn’t have done it without Ross standing beside me to keep me going in the right direction. Thank you for the kind words and always, for the support.

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6 years ago

This was a good article, I meant to say I read it, but I cannot comment on it. As a mentally healthy individual, it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to comment. 

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6 years ago

Thank you so much for sharing this. Your insight on such a personal matter is something I really appreciate. I am personally not a proto Radiant, but I definitely know people who are. This is something that convinces me that I need to steer them harder towards the Cosmere. Much of this resonated, even on the level of mental struggles that everyone face over the course of their days and this journey we call life. I can only imagine how powerful and deep hitting it must have been for you. Know that you are not alone and that I think the stigma around mental health is perhaps the greatest travesty our kind has inflicted on itself. I hope one day others can be inspired by you find the strength and courage to share their stories as well.

Thank you once again both of you. You have given me a deeper understanding of our heroes and in doing so helped me gain more insight to my real world hero who struggle with their own mental demons. I will definitely use that to be a better companion and friend to them. Know that your Radiance shines through these words and I have nothing but massive respect for you.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Gepeto @27: I don’t see any reason why not suffering from mental health issues renders your potential comment(s) inappropriate. Provided your comment(s) aren’t dismissive or derogatory, your thoughts are welcome.

And considering the fact that one in five people suffers from some kind of mental health issue at any given time, you likely know people who are sufferers. 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

hassanbh @28: This is the perfect response from one who doesn’t suffer but knows people who do. We wanted to reach individuals such as yourself, too… to hopefully provide some insight into what these characters mean to so many of us and to let you know that you are important to those in your life who need your support and understanding.

It would be amazing if you could steer people toward The Stormlight Archive and the Cosmere as a means of introducing them to characters they might relate to as strongly as we do.
Thanks so much for reading and for commenting!

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6 years ago

Thank you for this incredibly touching and insightful piece.  I am one of the lucky ones who does not suffer from mental illness, but I often feel surrounded by those  who do (I am the only woman in my very close-knit family who has not been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, or both).  Just this past weekend, my little sister and my mom came to stay with me to help me with my 2 young kids since my husband had to travel, and we ended up staying up until 1 AM (a big deal when you are breastfeeding a baby who eats every 2 hours and gets up for the day at 5:45!) talking about many of the things Paige discussed, as seen from my little sister’s perspective in college when her anxiety and depression were both at their worst, heightened by an emotionally abusive relationship.  Thus, this article is timely.  I love having more tools to use when I put my big sister hat on, and this article definitely provided them. 

I love all the Cosmere books, but the Stormlight Archive books are hands down my favorite.  Shallan is hands down my favorite character in those books, and I believe Paige just made me realize why – she is so much like my little sister!  I just want to hug her (and sometimes shake her, although I know from experience that that strategy is not a good one) and tell her that things will get better, she is strong and capable, and she has so much value.

This was very rambling, but thank you, Paige and Ross, for a wonderful article.  And thank you especially to Paige for sharing so much of your journey.  Your beautiful heart shone through this article. And congratulations on becoming a grandma!

 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Evelina @31: Your comment has made me smile… I’m glad you felt moved to talk to us about your sister.

To be honest, as touched as I’ve been today to see the numerous people (here and on Facebook) who have related to myself and these characters, I’m equally moved to see comments from people who aren’t sufferers but may know someone who is, and who now have a new insight. 

Thank you so much for sharing your new insight with us… and hug your sister for me, too. :)

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6 years ago

@29: My thoughts are everyone within the entourage of our mentally ill cast of characters are taking it in absolutely wonderfully. Mental illness is not just a hurdle for those having them, they also are a hurdle for their closed ones: the story would feel fuller if it also broached this perspective. I was especially interested with Dalinar’s descent into alcoholism where nearly everyone was whole-heartily supportive of him. Is this how it usually goes down within most family dealing with this same issue?

Not everyone has the capacity of being understanding, selfless and dedicated: some of us just fail at this. Hence, I ended wishing there would be characters who would struggled with dealing with our Radiants, because I, as a reader, often do. As a real-person, I can’t say I have managed to deal well with mental illness within my own family. Others speak of how they were supportive or how they had support: I only remember hot bright anger and shouts.

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6 years ago

Just commenting to say, thank you for sharing. 

 

For what it’s worth I recently participated in a focus group about government ads for mental health; the overall attitude in the group was exceedingly positive and open. How it can affect anyone, how it is not easy to overcome and how it does not make someone a worse or weaker person. Hopefully that is an indication of a changing perspectives worldwide. 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Gepeto @33: See? You have very relevant, very thought-provoking things to say. Thank you for sharing! This is good stuff… and I’m happy to respond. I’ll do it inline, if I may.

Mental illness is not just a hurdle for those having them, they also are a hurdle for their closed ones: the story would feel fuller if it also broached this perspective. 

I could not agree more. Friends and loved ones of people with mental illness and severe mental health issues often do get the short end of the stick. While I’m fortunate enough that my disorder’s symptoms don’t manifest in an abusive way to others, I know that some people’s do… and I’ve experienced this in my own family. So I fully agree about your mention of hurdles. 
While we have seen some of how the loved ones of our Radiant characters react, such as Kaladin’s family in his flashbacks, we really don’t see much of how others react to our ‘broken’ characters. So yes, broaching those perspectives would be valuable.

I was especially interested with Dalinar’s descent into alcoholism where nearly everyone was whole-heartily supportive of him. Is this how it usually goes down within most family dealing with this same issue?

During the beta read, there was a LOT of talk about Dalinar’s alcoholism and his sons’ blind admiration for him. So this is not lost on most readers, rest assured. Perhaps Evi was responsible for lifting up Dalinar in their minds to such an extent that even his abhorrent treatment of them after her death was forgivable in their eyes. I hope we see more of this time from Adolin’s and Renarin’s perspectives.
As for other families dealing with this issue, I couldn’t really say. My brother was an alcoholic, but he left home when I was just a kid, and I never encountered him “in his cups”, shall we say. The most I saw of his alcoholism was that it killed him… 14 years ago next week, in fact. 

Not everyone has the capacity of being understanding, selfless and dedicated: some of us just fail at this. Hence, I ended wishing there would be characters who would struggled with dealing with our Radiants, because I, as a reader, often do.

I totally get that not everyone has this capacity. I’m not sure that I would, were my situation reversed and I was dealing with someone like me. It’s one reason I’m constantly afraid that people will leave, because they just can’t deal with my shit anymore. Trust me, this is the fear of a lot of people in my situation… and sadly, many of us are inclined to push people away before they can leave. It’s a shitty, vicious circle and it’s incredibly difficult to overcome, for anyone and everyone in the equation.
And you know, as I try to see this from your perspective, I agree that it would be good to have a character who struggled with dealing with our Radiants. I think that would be enlightening.

As a real-person, I can’t say I have managed to deal well with mental illness within my own family. Others speak of how they were supportive or how they had support: I only remember hot bright anger and shouts.

I’m sorry you only remember anger and shouts. I remember a lot of that, too… and looking back and knowing that my dad suffered from PTSD as a Marine Corps Veteran of the Vietnam Conflict, and that my mother suffered from undiagnosed and untreated bipolar disorder may help me to understand *now*, but it doesn’t do anything to soothe that little girl who had no control over how people behaved or how she was treated as a result. 
I hope I’m not overstepping here to say that you aren’t obligated to deal well with anyone’s mental illness. It’s not your responsibility just because you’re family. Many people who suffer from mental illness can be abusive and manipulative, and their illness may be a reason for such behavior, but it’s no excuse. 
Some of us try to support, some of us are lucky to receive it… and some of us are victims, healthy and unhealthy alike. 

I’m blathering, but thank you for deciding to comment. I think your thoughts are extremely relevant and can open a great dialogue. 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

saywot @34: I also hope that your experience is indicative of a change in perspective. What an interesting experience that must have been for you. Thank you for reading and commenting. 

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Gaz
6 years ago

Thank you for this illuminating article and discussion.

As someone who does not have mental illness, I tend to stay away from media/fiction that depicts these things. Reading Stormlight Archive was really my first time with characters with these issues. Naturally I was frustrated with Shallan’s arc throughout OB – because I have never experienced anything like her trauma or the resulting mental illness before, I couldnt understand why sticking to being herself was so hard. I’m obviously ignorant of the difficulties that people with the same mental issues as Shallan go through.

However, I’ve had to deal intimately someone who was broken before. Almost 10 years ago I was in a relationship with someone who had some of these issues. Neither of us handled them well. I didn’t know how to deal with her issues, and mostly pretended they weren’t there. She didn’t want to be vulnerable to me and /or she didn’t respect me enough or think I was mature enough, to think I could help. Or maybe she didn’t want to be helped at the time. She was emotionally abused or mistreated growing up and she emotionally abused me in turn. We never should have gotten together.

Hence I agree with Gepeto – it would probably be more realistic if characters had more trouble dealing with the broken radiants than has been portrayed so far. Although I believe Adolin might be in for a world of Shallan-related pain in Book 4 and beyond…

  

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6 years ago

Thank you for this beautiful article. So much of what you’be written resonates; I’ve tried to explain those very things but have never felt like I adequately conveyed the feelings to friends and family … so instead shut them out and hide from them

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6 years ago

Thank you for the beautiful post. You perfectly articulated so many of the feelings and emotions (and imperfect coping mechanisms) that have never seemed to be able to convey to friends and family (and so instead hide and engage in the self-destructive behaviors that have been the coping mechanism for so long)

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Gaz @37: I’m sorry for your previous experience. It is a difficult thing to carry on a healthy relationship with an individual suffering from some mental disorders.

I know several mentally healthy people whose spouses suffer from bipolar disorder, or chronic depression and anxiety… and in each case, the spouse either borders on abusive or disinterest. My friends struggle greatly with their individual challenges, and though they’re the ones trying to support their spouses, we have surprisingly close relationships. As a non-abusive sufferer of both bipolar disorder and anxiety, I can sympathize with each of them and they, in turn, can understand my own struggles more than most. 

Thank you for taking the time to comment on our piece; I hope that it’s given you some insight.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Ford75 @38/39: It can be incredibly difficult to convey feelings like this to family and friends when many people just can’t comprehend why we feel the way we do or why we can’t just snap out of it. I hope you’re able to find a way to better communicate the way you feel, and also that they are open-minded enough to listen.

If you aren’t in therapy, I would highly recommend it… it’s good to have someone listen to you objectively and understand where you’re coming from.

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Chris
6 years ago

Paige,

Thank you for your beautifully written and open, honest story relating your own struggles with these novels. I am going to quote Wit here and say that  “You are not worse for your association with the world, but it is better for its association with you.” Your story and the Stormlight Archive are wonderful in that they humanize emotional struggle and mental illness in a world that often tries to invalidate, ignore, and stigmatize without seeing the strength within those who struggle. Because of this it is so easy, so tempting, to wear a mask that hides the pain. I thank you deeply for taking the risk and lowering your mask for us.

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6 years ago

Thank you very much for this article. It does you Honour to talk about your selves so openly. I can say I can relate to Kaladin for his depression and his fits of apathy. I also understand and deeply appreciate Dalinar’s journey and reflection, though I am not a war criminal nor an alcoholic myself.

Here’s my personal interpretation of the First Ideal: for me, it means that life does not lose its meaning in view of death, but that death and life mutually acquire meaning. It means that life is not a game we can light-heartedly interrupt, not at all. It means that why we live and how we live is more important than where we’re headed, because we all know that our final destination in life is one and one only. It also means we can find strength in life through which we can be able not to be obsessed with the continual thought of having to someday die, and of what there is or there is not after death. It means that before old age and weakness and desease there is strength, and that we must not give up before the end because of fear.

 

Also, I agree with you that even Jordan’s Wheel of Time, though not so heavily centered around mental illness or broken heroes, is remarkable nonetheless in this regard. It includes what I consider the most beautyfully written example of a really broken person (and hero), the example being Rand, whom I think we could say suffers from post traumatic disorder (and from several other issues, as well!).

 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Chris @42: That Wit quote gets me every time. Thank you for applying it to me, that’s high praise.

I agree that the world is hard on people who struggle with illnesses of the mind and that our battle is seen as ‘less’ than that of people who fight physical afflictions. I’ve even faced that same stigma from front office personnel at the office where my psychiatrist works part-time (he travels from out of town 3 days a week)… and it’s incredibly frustrating. That attitude contributes to people giving up on seeking help in the form of treatment, therapy, and medication.

And to be honest, I didn’t lower my mask so much as struggle to keep from donning it–repeatedly–during work on this article. Creating this with Ross’s help was a battle against myself and my anxiety… and I’m floored at the primarily positive response. Thank you for your comment, it’s appreciated.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

paultaylors @43: Thank you for sharing your interpretation of the First Ideal, I’ve enjoyed seeing people talk about how these words have affected them. It’s interesting to see the many ways people view this Ideal and how they feel about it. 

Thank you for reading and taking the time to comment!

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6 years ago

Also, I’d like to remember a quote from Oathbringer, both the real world and the in-world book:

Finally, I will confess my humanity.

It may well be my favourite quote from all of Brandon’s work. I see it as a statement that encompasses all of Dalinar’s journey up to that point. It means that he accepts and understands he’s a monster and he’s broken and he’s made terrible mistakes, and STILL he wants to be human. He does not surrender to the idea that he’s already condemned and he’s not worth of living. I see it as a really profound realisation and confession to himself, about himself, and it strikes me as being so profound that I cannot even express adequately what I mean with words.

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Astaroth
6 years ago

Great piece! It’s a very difficult thing to open up as you did, and expose all your woes an worries. You’re very brave for doing it, and deserve ever lasting respect and admiration.

It’s also a great insight into the characters minds, and makes me love them even more.

Keep at it!

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Stark Jones
6 years ago

You gloss over “Strength Before Weakness” as a generic ideal, but to me it is the one that stands out.  Strength before weakness challenges the Radiant to recognize the flaws, weaknesses, cracks, and damage that makes them Radiant. Strength before weakness is recognizing that a Windrunner is a We, not an I; it is Shallan allowing Andolin to help her find herself when her “me” gets lost; it is Dalanar falling apart in order to bring the world together   Strength before weakness is asking for help and allowing other’s strength to stand before your weakness.  It is being okay not being the hero.  It is a necessary corollary for broken people in a broken works to truly place Life first.  

sarrow
6 years ago

@46 Excellent insight. For me, this is why the folks around our Radiants are willing to work with them. It’s obvious that they are *trying*, and even when they fail or backslide or step right up to the edge of the abyss, they don’t just give in, and they aren’t lashing out at the people around them. It’s the difference, and it’s obvious that Paige works too. While I wouldn’t claim that I am one of those completely unaffected by mental illness, I am much less so than some of my beloveds. And as long as I can see they are working, and aren’t abusive, I have all the patience and compassion in the world for them.

Scáth
6 years ago

Just wanted to say that this article perfectly illustrates the importance of a diverse inclusion of varying characters (mental illness, spectrum, physical disability, LGBTQ, ethnic minorities and so on) in media. How supportive and enriching it can be for someone feeling alone, or alienated (due to any of the above reasons) to see a character they identify with. It is therapeutic, and I think it is wonderful that Sanderson has chosen that to be the focus of the Stormlight Novels and perhaps the Cosmere overall. To let people know they do not have to be “perfect” or “normal” to be a hero in their own story. That most importantly, they are not alone. 

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6 years ago

Paige @30: thank you for your words. I would love to recommend the Cosmere but for spoiler reasons don’t want them to start off with the SA. Any other Cosmere works that you think will resonate or help them draw in enough so they can experience the SA in all its glory when they are ready? The person I refer to has fallen off the high fantasy wagon a few years ago and now usually enjoy realistic fiction or ASOIAF more (probably due to how bleak it is). I, of course, as proponent of high fantasy/sci fi keep trying to get them to read WoT (a very tall order) or get them started in the Cosmere (where my preferred reading order is generally more on independent stories to series especially as Mistborn Era 2 and the SA are pretty spolier-y). So recommendations are always welcome.

Braid_Tug
6 years ago

Thank you Paige and Ross for this article.   Sorry it took me two days to actually read the whole thing.  It is beautiful and touching.  Half the time I was crying.

Family members are diagnosed sufferers. I used to think I was fine.   Then read about non-standard symptoms.  Realized that when I get snap and get “extra bitchy and critical” that it was a lashing out of anxiety.  Maybe even depression.  I’ve not talked to a doctor.  Just thankful for friends and husband that are understanding and accept my sincere apologies.  Occasional problems are easier to ignore. But probably shouldn’t be. 

And thank you to the other commenters who are sharing their experiences and thoughts.  Both those with known issues, and those who are fine.    Sadly this topic is not always respectfully discussed, but everyone here has been great.

 

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Jess
6 years ago

This article totally captures why I love the Stormlight Archives! Even though I’d tackled and grown past previous mental illness, it puts into words how it feels to constantly battle yourself. And while there isn’t exactly recovery from mental illness, it does get easier to cope with, especially when there are books like Oathbringer and people like Tien and Hoid to pull you along. 

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6 years ago

I…man, this post hit me hard. I’m not gonna go into too much detail about my own personal experiences, except to say that the majority of this post really resonated with me. I related to so many of the issues you were describing. Ever since I read The Way of Kings, I immediately related to his depression. I don’t know if I actually have it as I haven’t been professionally diagnosed, but how Sanderson describes Kaladin’s depression, not just in the first book but in all three, has always struck me as so real. And Shallan…I relate to her so much. I feel like I always wear a different mask around different people, so it was such a struggle to read her descent into madness in OB.

There’s so many other things that I related to, but I can’t keep talking about them anymore or I’ll cry or something.

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Chris
6 years ago

Paige @44: I meant it sincerely and have experienced that stigma and the frustrations associated with it both as a previously clinically depressed individual with severe, agoraphobic social anxiety and as a counseling psychologist helping others. I want to quote Wit/Hoid again for you and all of those posting and lurking here going through struggle, “Keep cutting at those thorns, strong one. Make a path for the light.”

There is light and beauty in this sometimes dark, ugly world. Likewise, there is strength and beauty within every person that can sometimes be lost or overlooked due to the multitudinous factors associated with mental illness. I am eternally grateful for those who helped me cut through the thorns and find the light in me and in the world. Strength before Weakness-Please seek help if you are struggling, whether that is a caring family member, friend, or a trained professional and please work to help others cut away at those thorns when you are strong, don’t push away their pain or write them off as weak. Rather push yourself to understand and to continue to accept them. It is hard to lower that mask or to work to take someone else’s off. In no way do I want to simplify this or imply that change is easy or that it will always be safe. Life before Death- Yet, despite that, life with a mask on is a (relatively) comfortable “half-life”. It is like living your life while flat-lining. It may be safe, it may avoid being rejected by those who do not accept or understand you. Alas, it also prevents being truly selected, encountering people who accept and understand you, and living life to its fullest while you are still alive. 

Journey before Destination- For what it is worth, I have also found that the process of cutting through those thorns makes us stronger humans, as we see with our beloved Radiants, in other works of fiction, and in real life examples (see Abraham Lincoln and Gandhi for instance). It is the hardest journeys that forge the strongest people. Thus, my hope is that many of you will look back on these hard days and not be fond of them, but thankful for the person you have become because you struggled and persevered along the journey to get to your destination. I have and it has made all the difference in my life. 

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6 years ago

@35: Thank you for writing this. I honestly wasn’t sure I could phrase my thoughts in a manner which would make them well-received, this is such a personal topic. And considering I am one of those readers struggling with Shallan and occasionally with some other characters, I didn’t feel my thoughts were welcomed. I am glad I managed to find the right words to express them.

I am really glad to hear the Beta readers commented on Dalinar’s sons blind admiration of him despite the bad treatment he gave them. I was very troubled, upon seeing how bad Dalinar was, to realize no one, just no one, was willing to hang it over his head. Because I probably would. Because I find it would be normal and natural for some to struggle to understand, to be so genuinely hurt they cannot react in a more positive manner.

My personal experience is you can’t shove “understanding” and “support” down anyone’s throat. You can’t demand others to understand on the basis they “are healthy” and they should “be comprehensive”, not without taking the time to help them rationalize it, but often, “understanding” is just the expected behavior. What happens when you just do not have the right tools to be “understanding” or when it starts to play into your own personal flaws or when it just hurts for various reasons? Or when you are just too young to comprehend? Those issues are so complex and difficult to grasp, I feel understanding cannot be universal, even if it should, even if we want it to be.

This other quote, about not weighting down anyone’s hardships because others had it worst, summarizes my youth: how can you be allowed to have struggles, to not be 100% understanding, to have hardships and, worst to speak of them when next to you stands someone who, by all means, has it so much worst it doesn’t even begin to compare? You can’t. You. Just. Can’t. You have to be the strong one, the healthy one: there is no other way. You have to be steady and sometimes, being steady is the backlash because you dissociates yourself from all of the mayhem which is happening, all the anger, all the shouts and all the dysfunctions which aren’t you. You do not want it to be you, so you dissociates yourself from it. Such as been my personal experience. And it unfortunately cannot happen any differently: the one who is mentally ill needs the attention and the support while you don’t. It’s just how it is.

So no, not everyone will react well, not everyone will behave spot perfect. It is one thing when you encounter it as an adult, as someone having the right tools to both comprehend and be supportive, it is another thing when it happens within your own family, when you are a kid because you have zero tools, zero escape, zero ways to deal with it other than pretend it does not exist and keep on being strong. Pretend your life is privileged and normal because, as far as anyone can see, it is.

Adolin and Renarin were very much kids when Dalinar went bad… They wouldn’t have the right tools anymore than I did. I can rationalize some of their behavior (I could write a wall of text here, but probably not the right topic to do so), but when I add their admiration of Dalinar, to Jasnah’s, to Elhokar’s, to Navani’s love, I end up feeling SA’s world is filled with supportive comprehensive people with an infinite capacity of adaptation.

So hence, I feel seeing more reaction out of “other people”, reactions which aren’t “perfect” would make enhance the story.

I hope I’m not overstepping here to say that you aren’t obligated to deal well with anyone’s mental illness. It’s not your responsibility just because you’re family. Many people who suffer from mental illness can be abusive and manipulative, and their illness may be a reason for such behavior, but it’s no excuse. 

It happened many years ago: the ill family member is doing good now, but it leaves scars. I will never have a real relationship with my sibling other than a functional one. As a kid, I did feel she was abusive, using her issues to curry favors, but just saying it, I feel bad as it probably was far more complex: I just couldn’t understand. From her perspective, I was the perfect one, I was the “Adolin”. It is all very mixed up and twisted around, but I was told, younger, it was my responsibility to take care of her. 

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Tuttle
6 years ago

Thanks for sharing this. I know your article will help people professionally and personally.

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6 years ago

It’s not high fantasy, but those interested in nuanced portrayals of mental illness may want to watch Crazy Ex-Girlfriend (on Netflix last I checked). Fans of Shallan in particular.

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William Meek
6 years ago

Thank you guys for this. This hit home in a lot of ways and I think this article, in a lot of ways, is one of the most important things I’ve ever read. I want you to know how special your personal sharing with me was and how deeply appreciative I am. I haven’t cried in months, maybe years, and now twice today I’ve been in public with tears in my eyes. 

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. Now I’m going to start page 1 of WOK for the 5th or 6th time. 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Stark Jones @48: One thing I love about these Ideals is the way everyone interprets them differently. They mean something a little different to each of us and so they mean a hundred different things… a thousand… and so on. I think it’s pretty awesome, actually. Thank you for sharing what “strength before weakness” means to you.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

hassanbh @51: It’s difficult for me to recommend order because I’ve read everything as it was published after picking up Elantris and Mistborn: The Final Empire.
I would say maybe get them into Mistborn era 1. Then Warbreaker, and then maybe start them on Stormlight. That will give them a good taste of Brandon’s work before they dive into the Archive.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Braid Tug @52: Hey, no need for apologies, my friend. Thank you for reading, and for your kind comments. 

The thing about mental health issues is that everyone experiences them to some extent. Some people have passing bouts of depression, everyone has experienced anxiety to one extent or another, and some of us have full-blown mental disorders. Whee!

One person’s issue being chronic or an organic disorder doesn’t lessen the suffering of anyone else who has experienced symptoms, whether they’re passing or recurring, mild or severe. Everyone’s issues are valid. I’m glad you have the love and support you need to help you cope with yours. *love and hugs*

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

strikerez @54: If Kaladin’s depression resonates so strongly with you, it might benefit you to look into therapy. Even if it’s just one or two sessions. In the 5-1/2 years since my diagnosis, I’ve only spent a couple of those years in sporadic therapy, but when I’m not going, there’s a marked difference in my overall mental health. 

You get so used to the darkness that you get comfortable there and you forget that you could feel better. That you used to feel better. That it’s possible to feel better. But it is possible.

Thank you for commenting, despite having torn open my heart and mind for this article, it touches me to see every person who says that they can relate. It makes me feel less isolated, and I’m honored to know that sharing my experiences and feelings has touched something in others. In you.

Hit me up in Messenger if you ever feel so inclined. I was serious about that. *hugs*

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Gepeto @56: I could write a huge response–again–but I feel like I’m blowing up this comment thread tonight, trying to catch up with everyone! I do want to touch on a couple of things.

My personal experience is you can’t shove “understanding” and “support” down anyone’s throat.
[…]
I feel understanding cannot be universal, even if it should, even if we want it to be.

I totally get it. Even after my diagnosis, I was the one who tried to help everyone, be there for everyone, be the rock. After I experienced something traumatic last December, I had to admit to myself, and to others, that I had nothing to give them. I had to use every mental and emotional resource for myself. So I think I can understand, to a small extent, what you mean. 
It’s okay to feel that way. If we don’t take care of ourselves, we can’t be expected to take care of anyone else.

…how can you be allowed to have struggles, to not be 100% understanding, to have hardships and, worst to speak of them when next to you stands someone who, by all means, has it so much worst it doesn’t even begin to compare? You can’t. You. Just. Can’t. 
[…]
…the one who is mentally ill needs the attention and the support while you don’t. It’s just how it is.

But you can. You should. And if someone has expected something different of you, they are/were wrong. Full stop. You can’t sacrifice your own mental health for the sake of another’s. Because everyone needs attention and support.

I feel seeing more reaction out of “other people”, reactions which aren’t “perfect” would make enhance the story.

I agree that it would, yes. We can definitely hope to see something of that in future books.

I feel bad as it probably was far more complex: I just couldn’t understand. From her perspective, I was the perfect one, I was the “Adolin”. It is all very mixed up and twisted around, but I was told, younger, it was my responsibility to take care of her. 

It was almost certainly more complex. And it was not your responsibility. It just wasn’t. 

Thank you for responding. Please feel free to hit me up on Messenger if you’d like to chat more. My Facebook is in my profile here. 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

William Meek @59: I’m somewhat speechless. And that’s saying a lot, considering how much I said in this article.
I’m humbled by your comment and so grateful that you took the time to post. Your response, and those of others who have been moved to respond have been a much-needed validation, and will give Ross reason to tell me “I told you so” for years to come, I’m quite sure.
I’ve said this to a few people, and a couple of others have done so already, but please feel free to reach out to me on Messenger, if you’d like to talk more.
Thanks again for reading and commenting, William.

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6 years ago

I logged here only to write this. Dalinar’s story in Oathbringer saved me from nearly suicidal depression this winter.

“The most important step a man can take. It’s not the first one, is it? It’s the next one. Always the next step.”

Thank you for an article. Thanks Brandon Sanderson for the book and for the character.

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6 years ago

This was the thing I needed to read today, and I didn’t know it until I got here!

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

drzj @67: I’m glad that you had Dalinar’s words to sustain you. They’ve been a beacon for me, too… though I need to be reminded often to keep taking that next step. Do your best to stay well away from the Honor Chasm, my friend.

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6 years ago

@56 Gepeto, thank you for sharing your story. As someone who was initially frustrated with your reactions to Shallan being able to know WHY you felt that way REALLY helped.  As frustrated as I was at you for not getting her pain, all this time I was blind to your pain. As a result I feel kind of crappy now.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

BenW @70: You know, I’m glad I went through with this article if for no other reason than that these kinds of conversations might take place and give us all a better understanding of one another.

Thank every one of you for commenting here, or on Facebook or Reddit, or anywhere else you may have participated in discussion. It’s all valuable… let’s keep talking about these issues. 

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6 years ago

@69 Looks like I’m adding “staying away from the Honor Chasm” to my store of metaphors (joining “Penric on a hillside at dawn”).

ETA: I’m glad that other people are taking the Ideals seriously. I struggle over whether or not I can treat them as more than just clever lines from a book. I’d strive to be an Edgedancer but I don’t have the spoons for it.

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Sam Graber
6 years ago

I relate to this a lot even though I haven’t really struggled with mental illness. I re-read Way of Kings right after a really bad breakup, and it was a huge deal for me. Reading the scene where Kaladin goes down to Honor Chasm and almost jumps… I felt like if Kaladin could find a reason to live with the mess that was Bridge 4, I could find a reason to keep going when my life as I knew it had been shattered.

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6 years ago

@76 I hesitate to say which order I would belong to because I don’t know all the ideals of all the orders. I REALLY want to learn about Jasnah*’s and Renarin’s orders personally. 

*There is SOME speculation on the 17th shard that Jasnah MAY (emphasis on may) be on the autistic spectrum** as well. 

If I may here is the link to the 17th shard thread. [OB] Autism and the Kholins

**As I have mentioned I have Asperger’s Syndrome which is now considered part of the autistic spectrum. As a result I am curious to see learn more about Renarin (and Jasnah as well if the speculation turns out to be true****), even if they aren’t exactly the same.

 

****Heck even if the Speculation is NOT true I still want to learn about her. Just for different reasons.

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6 years ago

My reminder Thank you Paige and Ross!

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6 years ago

@65: Your story is very different than mine. My sibling never got a diagnosis, apart from depression, but I am convinced there was “something else”. I am not even sure diagnosis were a thing back within those years and my father’s motto was: “There is nothing wrong with her, she’s just shy, like her father”. Admirable, but counter-productive.

I totally get it. Even after my diagnosis, I was the one who tried to help everyone, be there for everyone, be the rock. After I experienced something traumatic last December, I had to admit to myself, and to others, that I had nothing to give them. I had to use every mental and emotional resource for myself. So I think I can understand, to a small extent, what you mean. 

How other people react to it depends on how it is brought to them, how old they are and what is their emotional baggage. My relationship with my sibling was strained already: she was jealous of me, she was not always nice to me. Others will probably recognize themselves here, she was behaving odd. Now, please, I was a kid. I’m the youngest, not the oldest. These… They are what a kid perceived, so yes, they probably are judgmental and not comprehensive at all, but things aren’t always obvious. Also, those were the eighties. None one knew about mental illness, none spoke of it.

However, when it is brought to them the right way, then yes, people you care about should understand. I mean, now I don’t want to infer it is your responsibility to make others understand your illness, it isn’t, but I am drawing a line in between explaining it to adults, grown-up and, well children. I was a kid, not even a teenager, a kid. Later a teenager, hence the anger, the frustration and the horde of negative feelings which always got in the way of “understanding”. 

But you can. You should. And if someone has expected something different of you, they are/were wrong. Full stop.

You should, but you can’t. It is not within the list of possibilities. It isn’t something others necessarily expect of you, it is something you expect of yourself. How can you live with yourself if you pull out a tantrum because a bunch of kids “weren’t very nice to you” when your sibling has been bullied for years and is suicidal? You’re just going to look like someone fishing out for attention, someone selfish and, well, you may very well be. You differ the focus from where it should be: it isn’t about you nor should it be. 

Hence none of this is simple: those narratives have a complexity to them which have yet to unfold.

It was almost certainly more complex. And it was not your responsibility. It just wasn’t. 

No it wasn’t, but those were the words of a worried parent. You never think the kid who’s good at everything which matters, who’s mentally is not going to enjoy hearing this. The steady kid is meant to be steady. Always.

@70: Why always helps. As I said, understanding is not universal: we each come with our own personal baggage and some things are harder to understand for some than they are for others. I perhaps struggle to understand Shallan, but others struggle to understand… I struggle to understand. So don’t feel bad about it.

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Eric "C" Heaps
6 years ago

In the midst of my own struggles, one thing I know I have the talent for is seeing people for who they are and understanding them, which naturally makes it hard to dismiss my own troubled views of myself. A part that really got to me was in chapter 118 of Oathbringer, when Jasnah decides not to kill Renarin and as she’s holding him, he realizes the weight of her not doing so and says “My vision was wrong about you. What I see… it can be wrong.’ (which then leads to Dalinar’s “You cannot have my pain.”)

For me, recognizing I can be wrong about my perceptions of my self in the face of being right about, with, and for other people is relieving.

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6 years ago

@76 To be fair for me seeing someone in pain ALWAYS hurts. I am just not good at noticing that pain. At that same time I can also experience the frustration that people have with, I don’t see how your present approach is going to help from a practical standpoint. I am capable of simultaneously empathizing with the pain that drives someone like Moash to take take the actions he does, while at the same time feeling it is an utterly stupid and pointless thing to do. I guess a lot of this comes from the fact that I have what is called Asperger’s Syndrome, it’s now lumped on the autism spectrum. If you don’t mind I will quote the TVTropes page a little as I find it helpful when trying to describe Asperger’s to other’s.

 

Lack of social ’empathy note: This doesn’t mean sociopathy. Another biggie, the term “empathy” is misleading, as people with AS do feel and appreciate emotions, but they are unsure of what emotion others are feeling. Extreme literal thinking means they can’t see why a person would pretend to feel otherwise than they do, and this difficulty is solved by the only logical course of action – to paste in the emotion of whose emotions they are aware – usually themselves. Thus, if they feel happy, they assume the other person feels happy until they are informed otherwise. Unfortunately, even when knowing how the other is truly feeling, they may not know what response is wanted. And if they want to help, logic dictates they respond with how they would want to be treated, even though it isn’t always accurate.

This all leads to a very ‘Treat others as you would be treated’ attitude – not a bad thing, and one factor in why Aspies can be so nice, but not appropriate to every social situation. People with AS may be completely unaware of, or unable to understand and “correctly” follow, social rules that seem utterly self-evident and obvious to everybody else. For example, an AS individual in a romantic relationship may not know that their partner wants them to say “I love you”, because they assume that the fact that they love their partner is a given and needn’t be said more than once for both people to know it.

Studies have shown that individuals on the Autistic Spectrum usually have a greater than average sensitivity to/empathy with, and desire to help, when they do notice somebody in pain. Their bluntness and lowered social inhibitions can make it easier for them to step forward to help than people who act ‘sensitively’ and tactfully ignore somebody’s distress

Emphasis MINE. I point this out because there was a point where Renarin, despite being on a different point on the spectrum, resonated with me. While he didn’t pick up on Rlain’s the parshman’s distress until it was pointed out to him. But once he did know he went over with no hesitation to be with him.

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ManyFeathers
6 years ago

Paige & Ross thank you for sharing yourselves so deeply. I completely missed the connection between mental illnesses & the Stormlight Archive. Now you have pointed it out it’s obvious!

I can’t ever remember NOT being depressed. There was a huge turning point for me when an elderly man looked at my face coming off an escalator when I was in my early 20s & said “It can’t be that bad.” I remember thinking, “You have no idea.” I had spend 12 months in self esteem therapy with a wonderful psychologist only to go headlong into an abusive relationship. That comment reminded me of where I wanted to be & I prepared my escape. My depression comes from severe childhood trauma, beginning when I was 6 months of age. I never talked to anyone about being depressed growing up & I am so thankful for that. And later being a therapist myself I see & experience that labelling & being put in a box with no escape, & taking chemicals do not help depression. Sure they might cover over the symptoms for a while, but they are not the answer. Not one person has ever been depressed due to a deficiency in an SSRI. We are depressed because of unresolved trauma & hormone & neurotransmitter imbalances. In 1991 I began studying to be a Herbalist & Wholistic Therapist, which included learning about aromatherapy & essential oils. I began using essential oils right away & have been using them ever since. I also began working on self-Love at the same time. Between the 2, doing some other exercises & meditation, & making a choice to be happy every day, I effectively alleviated the depression & the often suicidal thoughts. 27 years later, essential oils are still my life savers, along with the exercises I still do every day. I also find GABBA & L-Theanine help. Also important is working with the trauma & finding ways to release it – which is possible.  

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6 years ago

I have anxiety and depression, and find Kaladin’s depression profoundly relatable. I struggle to not be harmed by the word “broken,” with its connotations of being useless and unwanted, but otherwise I greatly appreciate the detailed, respectful, responsive, and accurate way the Stormlight Archive portrays mental illness. Thank you for sharing how it has affected you and highlighting the guidance it offers all of us.

The Kaladin reference I found most strikingly relatable is from Oathbringer:

He felt good lots of days. Trouble was, on the bad days, that was hard to remember. At those times, for some reason, he felt like he had always been in darkness and always would be. Why was it so hard to remember? Did he have to keep slipping back down? Why couldn’t he stay up here in the sunlight, where everyone else lived?

In another Oathbringer passage I didn’t write down verbatim, Syl tells Kaladin “You’re too hard on yourself” and he thinks something like “Maybe that’s my fatal weakness” and she sighs. That’s me right there. Constantly blaming and shaming myself for everything, including the fact that I shame myself.

This bit of “Edgedancer” has directly helped to sustain me through some very dark times:

Gawx: Lift, this isn’t the time for idle conversation about food.
Lift: Sure it is. We gotta remember. Storm might be coming, but people still need to eat. The world ends tomorrow, but the day after that, people are going to ask what’s for breakfast. That’s your job.

When my mental horizons slam down hard, and I struggle to believe in the possibility of any future worth having, the needs of the present — my own and those of people I can help — can be an essential focus.

Thank you for this, Paige:

At this point I feel it’s important to point out that when someone loses their battle with pain and despair, they’re not giving up, and they’re not taking the easy way out. Remember that they’re under assault by their own minds, constantly. They’ve likely taken numerous trips to the Honor Chasm, as so many of us have, and decided to step away from the edge to give it one more try. Don’t lay blame, don’t cry selfishness, and please don’t discount the fact that they were battle-weary and unable to continue the fight.

That is so important. In recent conversations about the Lord of the Rings books, I’ve been hurt and angered to hear people trash Denethor for fatally succumbing to despair, calling him a selfish coward with the arrogance to believe he knew the future would be terrible. Storm that. Despair is awful and I hate experiencing it and hate to see loved ones experience it, but it’s not sinful,* shameful, or a personality flaw. It may be “anathema” to Tolkien, but Tolkien can bite me (and I’ll bite him back).

That said, not succumbing to despair doesn’t always mean running toward certain death on a battlefield, or even singing in darkness. Sometimes it’s holding onto life, moment by moment. I can go with a message I’ve been hearing, as might our SA heroes at this point in their apocalypse-fighting: “When they want you dead, living is resistance.”

I find it interesting that these characters consider mental illness more a part of themselves than physical disability. I have severe visual impairment, and while I desperately wish it could be magically (or non-magically) cured because it greatly hinders my pursuit of work and relationships, it’s very much a part of who I am — it’s been with me since birth, it controls how I perceive and interact with the world, and I cannot imagine how not having it would feel. Depression is a thing that happened to me as a young adult, wounding the person I was and disrupting the life I lived, and I’m repulsed by the idea of having to accept it as a permanent part of my core identity.

@14 BenW: Yes! I’m neurotypical as far as I know, but related strongly to some of Steris’s experiences because of my vision impairment. Unable to see the nonverbal signals of face and body language, I miss out on a major aspect of communicating with people and feel I have to learn intellectually what others seem to know intuitively. Constantly vulnerable and often dependent on others, I like to have plans and backup plans for everything I do. Seeing her struggle and shine was a most valuable part of that series for me.

*OK, it’s part of “acedia,” which used to be considered one of the Deadly Sins. But I don’t live by the principles of that bunch, expect when they’re anthropomorphically personified in interesting ways.

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6 years ago

@80 I don’t know if you like manga but one I like to constantly recommend to people is Noragami. Basically take away the gods and ayakashi from Noragami and you literally have the story of an abuse survivor (Yato) who is desperately attempting to gain autonomy from his abuser and repeatedly failing due to a painfully realistic lack of resources and healthy coping mechanisms. 

One warning though as shinki are the souls of dead humans who wanted to live but couldn’t (and as we eventually learn god’s see the moments of a shinki’s death when they name him) Yato originally has a low opinion of people who try to comit suicide as he feels that it’s an insult to the shinki that wanted to live but couldn’t. That being said Yato eventually goes from the attitude of “if they want to die let them,” to “how dare you try to die in front of me!” so his way of handling the problem changes.

I felt the need to warn you about this because Yato’s playful yet cold exterior hides a broken soul. And I don’t want you to be turned off by misunderstanding him. He acts as if he cares about no one but himself as a front (especially at first) to hide deep seated insecurities about how he believes he is not worthy of love. And yet despite his sad past, he is NOT defined by it. And that what makes him heroic is resilance. That in spite of all he’s been through he’s still trying, and he’s slowly showing emotional growth. I could go on but I AM TECHNICALLY of topic here, and I don’t want to spoil you anymore than I already have. But I did want to encourage you to check it out.

 

That being said I think Yato would right into this world. He’s certainly broken enough to become a radiant. I’ll have to think about what order he would be. While he DOES have a thing with bonds his big thing so far is the ability to sever them. Though that’s not ALWAYS portrayed as a bad thing. For example in the first chapter he severs a bullied girls ties with her classmates, but that just takes her from bully victim to stranger and allows the relationship to start on a clean slate without the toxicity that came before. And he also DOES seem to know the importance of bonds that they aren’t something to just be cut frivolously. I guess I am speculating on if Yato were a Stormlight Archive charchter would he be a Bondsmith

 

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6 years ago

@80 I don’t know if you like manga but one I like to constantly recommend to people is Noragami. Basically take away the gods and ayakashi from Noragami and you literally have the story of an abuse survivor (Yato) who is desperately attempting to gain autonomy from his abuser and repeatedly failing due to a painfully realistic lack of resources and healthy coping mechanisms. 

One warning though as shinki are the souls of dead humans who wanted to live but couldn’t (and as we eventually learn god’s see the moments of a shinki’s death when they name him) Yato originally has a low opinion of people who try to comit suicide as he feels that it’s an insult to the shinki that wanted to live but couldn’t. That being said Yato eventually goes from the attitude of “if they want to die let them,” to “how dare you try to die in front of me!” so his way of handling the problem changes.

I felt the need to warn you about this because Yato’s playful yet cold exterior hides a broken soul. And I don’t want you to be turned off by misunderstanding him. He acts as if he cares about no one but himself as a front (especially at first) to hide deep seated insecurities about how he believes he is not worthy of love. And yet despite his sad past, he is NOT defined by it. And that what makes him heroic is resilance. That in spite of all he’s been through he’s still trying, and he’s slowly showing emotional growth. I could go on but I AM TECHNICALLY of topic here, and I don’t want to spoil you anymore than I already have. But I did want to encourage you to check it out.

 

That being said I think Yato would right into this world. He’s certainly broken enough to become a radiant. I’ll have to think about what order he would be. While he DOES have a thing with bonds his big thing so far is the ability to sever them. Though that’s not ALWAYS portrayed as a bad thing. For example in the first chapter he severs a bullied girls ties with her classmates, but that just takes her from bully victim to stranger and allows the relationship to start on a clean slate without the toxicity that came before. And he also DOES seem to know the importance of bonds that they aren’t something to just be cut frivolously. I guess I am speculating on if Yato were a Stormlight Archive charchter would he be a Bondsmith

 

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Ghost Wolf
6 years ago

It took me a long time to read through this article as it hit so hard within the first few lines.  I generally do not share mt feelings with anyone so i found it hard to even write this.  The part that stood out to me the most was your line “At this point I feel it’s important to point out that when someone loses their battle with pain and despair, they’re not giving up, and they’re not taking the easy way out. Remember that they’re under assault by their own minds, constantly. They’ve likely taken numerous trips to the Honor Chasm, as so many of us have, and decided to step away from the edge to give it one more try. Don’t lay blame, don’t cry selfishness, and please don’t discount the fact that they were battle-weary and unable to continue the fight.”

Suicide is a daily fight for me.  Everyday I think about how to kill myself while presenting a mask of normalcy to the world.  It’s fascinating how I can present a normal face to the world but the darkness at the back of my mind just keeps insisting on ending it now.  Step in front of that truck, jump off that bridge, slit your wrists now….

Thanks for bringing some light to my darkness Paige.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Ghost Wolf @83: 

It’s fascinating how I can present a normal face to the world but the darkness at the back of my mind just keeps insisting on ending it now.  

Yes, it’s an odd thing to wear such a mask and that most people can’t see through it. They can’t tell how hurriedly it’s created and applied, how it starts to slip throughout the day, or even during the midst of a short chat or encounter with a coworker. We look in the mirror and see that darkness inside of ourselves and we marvel that others don’t also see it… that it doesn’t shock them or make them uncomfortable. How do they not feel it as it pulses inside of us, as it smothers us?

I’m glad you found it within yourself to share. I’ve mentioned numerous times, in the article and here in the comments, that people can reach out to me via Messenger. I wasn’t kidding. People have reached out. Every one of them has moved me in some way. My FB link is in my profile here. I’ll listen to you.

Because I see your darkness, and I understand it. I empathize with you as you struggle with it because I also struggle. I’m here with you. Here’s my hand… hold on, my friend.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

AereonaGreenjoy@80: I’ve also struggled with the word “broken”, but I try to accept that the word doesn’t imply uselessness, but rather something that doesn’t work as it used to, or as something else may work.

Ross told me once of kintsugi, “the Japanese art of repairing broken pottery with lacquer dusted or mixed with powdered gold, silver, or platinum…” […] As a philosophy, it treats breakage and repair as part of the history of an object, rather than something to disguise.” 

So the repaired piece is unique and more beautiful because it was broken. These images also bring to mind the way spren are attracted to those with cracks in their souls… and suddenly, I’m okay with being broken. Because we’re beautiful, too. https://goo.gl/9oNGe8

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Tesh
6 years ago

 I am so grateful for this article. Thank you so much.

I haven’t been diagnosed with anything, but I have done a ridiculous amount of research on mental health after waking up one morning in mid February, feeling disconnected from the world. Since then, I have discovered that I have most likely been experiencing derealization for the past three months, and high functioning depression for most of this year, and minor anxiety since childhood.

I  posted a topic on the 17th Shard in late April for mental health awareness month. I have a family member with OCD, one with EFD, and one with ASD. 

And at my school, it is becoming a bit of a trend to say that people are autistic, or that you have OCD. I said I was OCD, until I learned that that family member actually had it, and did some research on what it actually is. So I have been telling people what I know whenever the opportunity arises.

My biggest struggle though, has been the derealization. It started on the twenty first of February. I woke up, and I felt like I was separated from the world by a wall of glass. Like nothing was there. At first, I thought it was just sleep deprivation. Then three weeks later, I started looking. It’s still going on, and is gradually getting worse.

For the past year, I have just had this continual sadness accompanying me. Some days, it’s terrible. Most days, I can lead a normal life.  but about two weeks ago, I just had these few days where everything was terrible. I spent every evening crying, laying on my bed, completely covered in a blanket. I was even more antisocial than normal. One of my journal entries that week was simply, “I deserve none of this.” I am doing better now,  but I still feel like I’m just a drain on everyone’s time and resources. No one wants me around. I’m just that annoying person who’s always correcting your grammatical errors.

Over the past few months, I’ve started to experience social anxiety. When I talk, people ignore me. It’s just the way it is. It’s always been that way. So, I don’t talk. I don’t tell people things anymore. Why would they care about what I have to tell them? Besides, they’d just tell other people. So I have very few friends outside of the Shard. I don’t express myself well through talking. So I write. And don’t share it. 

So I’ve been doing research. I mean, has anyone else even heard of depersonalization or derealization? Do they know what OCD actually is? Do they know what autism actually is? Bipolar? Schizophrenia? AFD? SAD? EFD? DID? PTSD? So I’ve been telling people.

(And I identify as a Windrunner, but could be an Edgedancer).

Silent no more. Spread awareness.

The hardest battles are fought in silence.

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Uhhh
6 years ago

Hi there. Just wanted to say thank you for writing this. It is incredibly brave, and also a great read. I am at a loss for words, but yeah. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

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Marieke
6 years ago

I’ve never before commented on anything on any media platform, but I just really wanted to tell you how much I appreciate this article. I’m afwul at talking about myself even on small matters, so I think you endlessly brave for being able to in such a public setting with everyone knowing who you are! 

And yes, it makes perfect sense to know something, but not feel it, not believe it.

hugs from distant Flanders

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Adam
6 years ago

This was a very powerful and touching article. I was nearly suicidal after my sister was murdered a little over 14 years ago. Even now I still get hit by depression occasionally. I resonate fully with journey before destination so, so much. Thank you for writing this article. 

Well done

Adam 

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Keleborn Telperion
6 years ago

Just curious about how you respond to the ubiquitous “How are you?” question. Asked by not only friends and acquaintances, but also grocery store clerks who are complete strangers. How does it make you feel to have to lie? How does it make them feel if you tell the truth?

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Tesh @86: 

When I talk, people ignore me. It’s just the way it is. It’s always been that way. So, I don’t talk. I don’t tell people things anymore. Why would they care about what I have to tell them? 

Though I identify as a Windrunner, I feel very strongly about the Ideals of the Edgedancers. “I will listen to those who have been ignored” 

I see you, I cannot, will not ignore you. We struggle with many of the same things and as they say, “Pain shared is pain lessened.” Though I don’t believe that sentiment most days, so I understand if you don’t. I understand if many of the people commenting here don’t. Maybe one day, we’ll believe it and we can all help one another lessen our pain.

Hit me up via Messenger, if you like. I don’t hang out on 17S, but I am online quite a lot. More than I should, really. But as one who also suffers from social anxiety, the internet helps me connect, even when I isolate myself. Much love to you. 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Uhhh @87: Thank you for reading and taking the time to comment. Ross and I appreciate knowing that this piece has touched people. 

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Marieke @88: I’m completely flattered that you chose this article on which to leave your first online social media/forum comment. I feared posting this piece so much… I literally wanted to throw up knowing that so many people would read it and see inside my mind when I’ve spent decades trying to hide from everyone. Ross told me that it would touch people, that it might help people, and though I trust him implicitly, it was hard to believe that anything I had to share would do such a thing. 

Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. 

*hugs from southern New Mexico*

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Adam @89: I’m so sorry for your loss. Remember that depression lies, and it feeds on our grief. Keep away from that chasm, friend… and know that so many of us are here to catch you should you stumble. Reach out anytime, I will respond. Much love to you, and hope for you to find some peace.

Paige from New Mexico
6 years ago

Keleborn @90:

Just curious about how you respond to the ubiquitous “How are you?” question. Asked by not only friends and acquaintances, but also grocery store clerks who are complete strangers. How does it make you feel to have to lie? How does it make them feel if you tell the truth?

Hmmm, how does it make me feel? I think that it makes me feel like I’m sparing people from having to hear my bullshit sob story. Depression and anxiety (those asshole little devils) whisper that nobody cares, that nobody wants to hear it. When people ask this question, they don’t really want to know. It’s a formality, it’s just something you say to people. They expect the rote response: “I’m good, how are you?” In fact, I’ve noticed that many people answer with a robotic, “Good, and you?” Short, not so sweet, tinged with undertones of, “Oh my God, if one more person asks me this today, I will punch myself in the face and show them how I really am.”

I can’t say with any certainty what most people would feel if I told them the truth. But I’ve seen the look people get when I only hint at the truth. There’s a look, and anyone who suffers from disorders such as mine knows what I mean. It’s a look that says, “I don’t actually want to know, I don’t care how you are. I have my own problems, you psycho, I don’t have time for your bullshit, too.” 

I realize that this attitude may seem melodramatic… and therein lies the rub. I can KNOW that it’s silly to fear this reaction while also knowing that of course, I’ll see it. Of course, people will look at me differently. Because they don’t want to know who I really am, they just want to hear, “Good, and you?”

/cynical

 

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Keleborn Telperion
6 years ago

Paige Vest @95,

I’ve gone from feeling humiliated that I have to lie (even when truth isn’t wanted), to feeling irritated and annoyed at the unwelcome invasion of my privacy, to trying to forgive them for not knowing any better (because everybody says it, its become a standard greeting), to feeling like I’m kinda crazy to be making such a big deal out of it, it doesn’t seem to be bothering anybody else, to feeling like why the fuck can’t they just say hello, I’d be happy to share a moment of mutual acknowledgement and a nonverbal I – wish-you-well with them, to finally settling on if you’re going to be a robot about this then I can too – Fine, How are you? Except that I don’t say How are you? I just say Fine.

And thank you.

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6 years ago

This is a really powerful article for me and I’m a little sad I didn’t have the chance to comment on it at the time it was published.  Thank you so much for sharing and putting yourself out there.

I’ve commented on this in the re-read before, but I’ve really appreciated how Brandon portrays his characters. I have an anxiety diagnosis, as well as a lot of depressive symptoms and have also (in the past) dealt with self harm/suicidal ideation, as well as a relationship with food that bordered on disordered and a lot of negative self talk/self image.

My oldest son also recently was diagnosed with autism, anxiety and depression. Helping him through his own struggles has been illuminating for me. Now, the anxiety/depression – I would not wish that on anybody. I really appreciate the way Kaladin is portrayed (and how he continues to struggle with it) but I still find it hard to take a ‘romanticized’ view of it being just another way of thinking/being or a crucial part of me. While in my youth I did strongly identify with it and even worried in some ways that treating my anxiety would make me less productive, or less of a go-getter – over time I’ve come to realize it in fact has in many ways hindered me (even my productivity – it just caused me to spin wheels and expend energy in counter productive ways) and prevented me from really knowing myself or realizing my potential. So I would definitely consider it a ‘flaw’ although not a moral flaw. Now, since Stormlight seems to be subjective in some sense, I can see how what really matters is how the person sees themselves. But I’m definitely at the point where I would use Stormlight (if possible) to give me a better brain chemistry ;) Given that we don’t have Stormlight, though – I know it likely WILL always be a part of me, and so I agree with the need to be loved and valued as a whole and to have the space to be that person. For me music has been one of the number one ways I stay in touch with my emotions and thus stay able to be connected with the people around me.

The autism on the other hand – I really don’t feel like my son is ‘disabled’ because of it (although it certainly presents some challenges and things that don’t come as easily). And through working with him I’ve noticed many commonalities between us (and especially my own childhood) which leads me to believe I am at least somewhere along that spectrum even if not at a clinically relevant level. So that is an area where I really appreciate the portrayals of characters like Renarin (or Steris in the Mistborn books) as characters who are just…different.

For me, some of the most powerful words were in Oathbringer. When Dalinar has his realization about ‘the next step’ and vows that each time he falls, he’ll just rise again a better man – that gave me chills (along with Hoid’s comments about failure to Shallan). The drive to self improvement (and, hand in hand with that, personal accountability) is really important to me, as well as perseverence in the loss of hope. It all fits together – owning and acknowledging one’s failures (be they moral failures or just things that didn’t turn out as well as you intended), but instead of being bogged down by them in despair – to just keep moving forward and do your best to learn from them. (To cross genres, I happened to read this part right around the time The Last Jedi came out and so it resonated really powerfully with Yoda’s speech about failure to Luke.)

{{I have to include a LOTR digression because Aerona mentioned it :)  I’m sorry people were hurtful to you about Denethor. LotR is one of my other touchpoints for me because I actually tend to relate to Denethor – I find myself overwhelmed by what appears to be undefeatable evil/awfulness and just want to give up. I’m prone to melancholy and apathy and nihilism. Denethor and Saruman represent two ways of dealing with that – either giving up, or joining up. But there’s also another way, which is taking the next step even when all seems lost. So for me it ends up being an important piece of symbolism (and possibly one more intended to be about external struggles instead of mental illness). Especially when one considers that both Denethor and Saruman have their point of view skewed by the palantir which are controlled by Sauron who selectively chose which information to show them. Palantir being ‘far-seers’ and the Elvish equivalent (language wise) of ‘television’ which seems even more relevant nowadays. If I have any grievances with Denethor it’s more about how he treats Faramir, even before the events in the book, which really have nothing to do with any of that. Plus I think they made him more of an ass in the movies so it’s hard not to conflate that as well.

Also, as an aside, Acedia (spiritual sloth) is NOT mental illness, and mental illness is not a sin. Acedia includes indifference/ennui/apathaticness, perhaps, or a lack of caring about others or spiritual matters. Things that also do come from mental illness (I’ve been down that road myself), but if you’re a more or less normal person who just simply doesn’t care about other people, or who chooses the path of least resistance (and that causes harm) when you actually have the capacity to do otherwise – then THAT would be considered spiritually toxic. But what I think we have gotten much better about and continue to get better about is recognizing that mental illness is more prevalent than we realize and that we DON’T always have that capacity and that matters (especially when it comes to how suicide is viewed). Interestingly, I think acedia is perhaps a danger in our day to day life to be aware of in modern times, especially if we have the wherewithal to fight it. It’s something I personally struggle against, both emotionally and spiritually, to the best of my ability – but also try to allow myself grace for what is outside my ability.

Sooooo….longwinded way of saying I think Denethor represents a cautionary tale about the dangers of acedia and why we must be vigilant and fight against it if we can, but I don’t think it’s right to vilify him for it – I see him as another tragic victim of Sauron who manipulated him via the palantir. How much culpability he had in getting sucked into it I would not presume to say.

And possibly Tolkien would agree with you – I know one of the things that deeply frustrated him were people who sent him angry mail about the fact that Frodo ‘succumbed’ in the end and yet was still treated as a hero; some people felt Frodo should have been punished at the end.  He felt they totally missed the point about grace and the fact that he did everything he could – that it still wasn’t enough was not a point against him}}

Likewise, Teft’s realization that he has to care for those he hates – even if that includes himself – was really touching for me because (while I’m not in that place anymore) I’ve gone through my own dark spot of complete self loathing and have had to learn self care.

The stuff with Shallan I can’t speak as much to – if I have a problem, it’s that I don’t have *enough* masks. Due to a combination of factors (and possibly the more autistic parts of my presonality) I tend to have a IDGAF attitude towards most people which has gotten me into trouble at times. So I’ve actually been working on guaging when things are appropriate and when they are not and in what circumstances.

That said, my younger son is also in the process of getting some extra help due to what we suspect is trauma related to living wih a special needs sibling. And one of the ways it manifests is his extreme refusal to ‘grow up’, and a lot of anxiety around change. He also tends to create his own ‘versions’ of the way things are…so now I wonder if both Shallan/Lift are more relevant to me than I realized.

 

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6 years ago

@95 + more

I mostly get the “how are you?” stuff early in the day, so my strategy has been to respond “fine so far, but it’s early.” It’s not quite what they expect so it disarms them a bit and they just wander off. But it also doesn’t get into any details that I wouldn’t want to share with a stranger or work colleague. Not for everyone, but that’s the script that works for me.

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alex
6 years ago

Teravangian is a really fascinating take on mental health. He could definitely be biploar, as any time someone believes their genius is so great that they have to write on the wall and furniture, it is probably mania.  Also I identified a lot with the idea of trusting a previous mental state one had been in, almost like faith, and, yeah. 

If you take that he is bipolar, the way he has developed his support structure by enlisting his aids is a really different take on how to handle the illness. Teravangian isn’t shy about his problems like most modern humans… he devised tests for people to get him, as if he really is a different person on each day, which seems very wrong as most mental health professionals would advise against bringing people into your delusion. I’ve never seen such a novel fictional take on how other people might react to mania… really interesting. 

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Sazedezas
6 years ago

Warm fuzzies.

I’m the kind of person who’s always been a compulsive helper to people with mental illness. I’ve never had a neurotypical girlfriend, and it always kills me a little when, though I listen, they are so used to being ignored that they refuse to be heard. That happened in an especially terrible way with the last one, who has now become one of those girls who laughs too loud because she doesn’t want me to think she’s less happy than she says. It hurts. It kills. I just wish she could read this article, but there’s no way she’ll read it if she thinks it was my idea. I can only hope that she will finish the journey she started with me. Without me.

I’ve no idea why I’m talking about this with a bunch of strangers, but whatever I’ve already started and there’s no stopping me now.

I very much identify with both the Windrunners and the Edgdancers, and I wish I knew for sure which one I would more likely become.

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Jared
4 years ago

I know this is a pretty dated thread, but, I just wanna say thanks. Thanks to you two for putting this thread together and thanks to Brandon Sanderson/Brando son Sando for the cosmere.

 

You said something that hit me really hard, paraphrase: Sanderson hasn’t just given people idols and heroes, but a toolbox for getting through life.

With the release of RoW on the near horizon I’m doing my annual read through of the cosmere. (It gets longer every year (thank the shards))

And I spend about 30% of my read through in years because I’m cheering on my Persons. They mean so much to me.

 

 

This might be a little morbid, but I find it, well, it just fills me with joy and appreciation.

I kind of wanted to post this on a reddit forum but didn’t know which, so I decided this is the place.

People often crap on authors for not finishing series. I can think of four off the top of my head. I generally appreciate all these authors anyways, but I have to say, my appreciation for B.s.S would not be diminished in the slightest if he never picked up a keyboard again. Sanderson has given me so much already that I could never repay him. I just wanna shake his hand and/or tell him thanks in person one day.